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    Abh life - society and culture

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    AlexT
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    Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 10/12/2009, 12:46 pm

    Hello everyone. In this topic we will try and put together all the availible info and discuss all that happen "behind the scene" - all the aspect of Abh life that doesn't involve fighting epic space battles and piloting warships.
    Remember - not even every Abh is in millitary and there are billions of non-Abh citizens of Empire as well. And even those who serve in fleet got a life too (ain't they?). The official books are not as rich on information about Abh culture and society as we'd like to, so we'll try to speculate on what's going on there with the help of our expert - Almael
    So purpose of the topic is to collect existing and develop new additional details that would fit Seikai world, all of which can be realy useful to those making fan fics, concept art etc.

    You can rise a question about any aspect of Abh everyday life. Anything, even what may seem most insignificant or silly.
    For example: Is there a planetary tourism for Abhs? Surely they wanna experience what it's like to walk planet surface, such exotics And then there's food - we know abh tastes can be different, but do they like icecream?....or do they like Japanese food? What is typical Abh "family" is like? Do they watch movies, play videogames, dance, have hobbies? Can Abh guy date multiple girls (and survive) due to "free" nature of Abh relationships? etc.

    (I will post more complex stuff i been thinking about for some time now a bit later - need to arrange my notes)
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/13/2009, 6:26 am

    Alright:

    Q: Is there a planetary tourism for Abhs? Surely they wanna experience what it's like to walk planet surface, such exotics
    There is tourism for anyone in the Empire. Places that resemble aesthetic landscapes are the most popular. (I think this was mentioned in COTS several times and somewhere else.)
    The only hindrance are that people don't really want to leave their planet, and that you need permission from the local government to visit.
    Also spending time on a ship in some small cabine, and the thought of the deadly vacuum just beyond the walls causes fear to many.
    And then not everyone can afford the luxury. It costs at least several months worth of salery.
    Many young people rather choose a more exciting life in the Star Forces.
    Many Abh feel exaggerated distaste for the elements, unsightful dirt, and smell from unknown worlds.
    The thought of having to endure such sensational torture may even feel creepy for some.
    Many rather prefer the safe and clean holographic rooms.

    Q: And then there's food - we know abh tastes can be different, but do they like icecream?....or do they like Japanese food?
    This is a bit of a cliche many Abh want to uphold for aesthetics. True is that Abh have good senses and a wider range of sensation.
    This is mostly to their discomfort, but sometimes to their exceeding pleasure.
    So many Abh prefer less sensational tastes just for comfort, but nonetheless individuals do have their own preferences to certain tastes.
    Abh do not dislike icecream. (Do not underestimate the apetite of females or their drinking behavior.) First princess Lafiel likes

    Q: What is typical Abh "family" is like?
    Many Abh "family" consist of a parent and one or more children. A family with two parents is rare due to work related location as well as due
    to their long life. Others just find a new love. Often, during childcare, a family lives with or close to older generations and or relatives.
    Most parents spend most of their time with caring and teaching their children until they become teenagers.
    It is common practice for parents to take a break from work for the upbringing of their children.
    Exceptions from the rules are rare but not unheard of.

    Q: Do they watch movies, play videogames, dance, have hobbies?
    All of these do exist of course. This is up to personal tastes.
    In their free time Abh pursuit their favorite ativities, this includes any kind of hobbies.
    Usually, there are not many reasons to party somewhere in the universe, and less reasons to spend that kind of money out there.
    Parties are often held in Lakfakalle, and other populated locations.
    While in the Star Forces, work time may restrict extended activities.

    Q: Can Abh guy date multiple girls (and survive) due to "free" nature of Abh relationships?
    Yes, (it depends on the girls). This is also true for a girl dating many guys.
    It is not recommended, though. Such reputation tend to spread very quickly and certain greeting smiles aren't uncommon afterwards.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by JGZinv on 10/13/2009, 11:38 am

    Lafiel's dessert looks more like a fruit yogurt sundae than an ice creme.

    Course the Japanese have several different variants than the US, so it could be something else.


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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/13/2009, 12:43 pm

    Can't really tell. Both are held cold so there is not much difference.
    It was melting when Jinto laughed away at Lafiel in front of everyone. This guy has no manner!

    @AlexT: Btw. your nick is written as ALéCSS+Tau.
    It's on the crew roster of the Basroil in the top ten. Not one of the animation team members was even on that same list. They had their own list.
    It seems selling your soul to the Empire did work out well.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 10/13/2009, 5:41 pm

    So we have our first thoughts here

    Ok, let's see:
    About tourism - i see your point. Abhs are sensitive and it work in both ways so things they aren't used to cause additional discomfort so they avoid experiencing many those directly.
    But then there's another thing that crossed my mind - if Abhs are kinda like "space elves" (or more like Eldar) and i believe it's somewhat true, then you'd expect em to be emotional as result of their sensitivity (at least Freud would) but seems like Abhs lack that "emitonal part" completely and whatever they do have is often hiden behind the mask. I'd assume they are emotional but learn how to hide it really well, but it doesn't seem to be this way. But - considering advanced gene engineering Abhs can be whatever they want to be. For me - it just proves that Abhs are artifical beings. That's probably why i was always interested in a character that would only have physical features of abhs as well as raised among them, but mentaly 100% human. Still not sure if he'd be like the rest of the abhs even if he grew among them. Which lead to the question - which factor is influence development of Abhs more - their society and culture or their genetics? I suspect that "gene of submission" have much deeper roots and effects are not limited to following rules...

    Food....well, icecream - i mentioned it for a reason. First we need to confirm that Abhs are not vegetarians because if they are - they'd avoid milk based stuff as well Personally i think it's very likely for them to be vegetarians, or at least for many of them, unless stated otherwise by author. Can't realy explain why, it just suits them, even if it's not true But i'm sure they prefer "useful" food most of the time because of their rational approach to every choise they make... So - healthy food is probably a popular choice compared to fried meet with beer

    Hobbies... i understand they have all kinds of them as well as entertainments they enjoy, but somehow i think it's not as popular among them as among us here on Earth Reason? I believe Abhs are fanatics. Achievements mean a lot for them so their hobbie is "trying to achieve". Be it millitary career or something else.
    Now, this lead to slightly different topic... One of the pupular beliefs at old AN was that Abhs are peaceful people who only wish to restore peace in the universe so that they can grow flowers, trade, make love etc. Not true Without clearly realizing it yet - their taste for achievements and competition evolved into something else ( thanks to UMK) the tase to war and destruction - as the highest form of all what they realy like so much Mark my words - if UMK is to surrender right away it would make more than one Abhs upset...

    Speaking of abhs girls - remind me if natural way to make chieldren is still technicaly possible among abhs or this function was disabled?
    Otherwise i see no reason for big change compared to our society since there's still competition for genes. If Abhs would randomly grow on tree - that would be a different story (remind me of that Twelve kingdoms anime, what a strange world it was)

    @AlexT: Btw. your nick is written as ALéCSS+Tau.
    It's on the crew
    roster of the Basroil in the top ten. Not one of the animation team
    members was even on that same list. They had their own list.
    It seems selling your soul to the Empire did work out well.
    Actualy sounds pretty cool - like a single word... As for roster is that a good or bad thing for me Almael? What are consequences of it? Does it mean more danger and work or relaxing somewhere behind front lines?

    And finaly - what i wanted to learn is what life of a trader is like. I will post more detailed question tomorow - need to sort my thoughts a bit
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/13/2009, 7:24 pm

    AlexT wrote:then you'd expect em to be emotional as result of their sensitivity (at least Freud
    would) but seems like Abhs lack that "emitonal part" completely and
    whatever they do have is often hiden behind the mask. I'd assume they
    are emotional but learn how to hide it really well, but it doesn't seem
    to be this way.
    I suspect that "gene of submission" have much deeper roots and effects are not limited to following rules...
    It depends. Abh from founding families have certain behavoral traits. So
    those are more visible. But to give a general idea. It's like this:
    Abh soly and intimitly raise their children with great care. As a result
    the children are very alike their parents. Although, they do spend a
    lot of time with other children, they are always under surveilance, and
    are tought to behave. As a result manners are stronger in Abh behavior
    than normal humans. Their believe that they are to preserve mankind may
    have elated their behavior as well. So they may not want humans to see
    them otherwise.
    Genes may have some influence to behavior patterns, but awareness and intelligence and environment can lead to anywhere.


    Personally i think it's very likely for them to be
    vegetarians, or at least for many of them, unless stated otherwise by
    author.
    Well, it's simpler to grow plant than animals
    for food, so I guess they do eat more vegetable than normal humans. But
    genetically there is no reason for them not to be able to eat meat.


    Hobbies... i think it's not as popular among them as among us here on Earth Reason? I believe Abhs are fanatics.
    I think they are more egoistic because they can pursuit whatever they
    want, except for certain things they are expected to do. This may have
    been mistaken as their drive to do something. Maybe they just want to
    get over with a certain part in life so they can turn to another,
    hence, they haste and work hard to finish etc.
    They definitely have the view that everyone should be allowed to do what they want.
    We see that in their freedom of love. The cots novel scene where Spoor told them to go ahead and kill the hostages, and then be annihilated. The Bots scene where Spoor told the enemy to do their best. Kufadis told them to do as they like. "You do your thing. We do ours. If we are couteracting then may the better one win."


    Mark my words - if UMK is to surrender right away it would make more than one Abhs upset...

    I think this is true for anyone.
    If you are working in some more exciting job, you can't stay calm when you are forced to a 'lesser' life. Normal life just won't do for these people.


    Speaking of abhs girls - remind me if natural way to make
    chieldren is still technicaly possible among abhs or this function was
    disabled?
    Yes, all is fully functional. A not low percentage of Abh still go all
    the way for the experience. Of course genetic checks and manipulation
    have to be done, so the eggs are often reinserted.
    And on certain planets...*ahem*...many things are allowed.


    (remind me of that Twelve kingdoms anime, what a strange world it was)
    No one can complain about bad genes, here. Since they all come from the same kind of trees.

    Actualy sounds pretty cool - like a single word... As for
    roster is that a good or bad thing for me Almael? What are consequences
    of it? Does it mean more danger and work or relaxing somewhere behind
    front lines?
    Well, you survived. Often, you have been left to do most of the work for the higher ranks.
    Your captain has been one of the riskier one.


    And finaly - what i wanted to learn is what life of a
    trader is like. I will post more detailed question tomorow - need to
    sort my thoughts a bit
    You might not want to read the first chapter of part one of my next story.
    Generally, it's similar to the X3 universe.
    Also it depends on if you are a private trader or working for the merchant marines.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/16/2009, 6:45 am

    In this special single post in which I will try to give answers to the economy and ruling issues.
    I know we have discussed this many times at AN and here, but this is important for many, and
    I feel there is still confusion and misunderstanding.
    My own thoughts will be marked in "[]" for clarity.


    To make it clear about what I refer to as the Empire in this post I will define it first.
    In this post, what I refer to as Empire is not the whole Empire, its territory and everything inside.
    I refere to the Head of State (Empress/Emperor), the governement and all its institutions, this includes
    the Labule (Star Forces), bases, the merchant marines, and all plane-space ships.

    Now to the facts given by the novels.

    The Empire does not tax planets. [It is unclear if the Empire taxes at all. Probably not.]

    The Empire is the patron for the subject government, and the subject government cares for the subjects.
    A subject is therefore in a way unrelated to the Empire. They are not Imperial citizens.
    Only Abh, and people serving the Empire can be Imperial citizens, this includes vassals serving a lord.

    Only the Empire owns plane-space ships.
    Plane-space ships are rented through the merchant marine to Imperial citizen.
    The merchant marine provides the crew if needed.
    The Empire had a custom that does not allow anyone with a rank of less than gentry to rent a ship.
    Renting ships is one source of money for the Empire! (after paying the crew and other costs)

    A star system is always under the lordship of a noble.
    He rules over the trade with other systems, and gives permit and laws for ships inside the system.
    He is only allowed to tax trade with other systems. He is not allowed to tax the planet.
    The tax serves to provide for his living.
    A lord is not paid by the Empire, even if he serves in any function or role or job to the Empire.
    A lord is expected to work for free for the Empire!
    His approval is required for the person becoming Planetary Representative (head of planetary government).
    Therefore, he can veto an anti-imperial governement directly.
    The Empire has no business in how the lord manages his household (except in extreme cases like breaking laws).
    He is expected to do well and good for his territory, though.
    Mismanagement would cause problems for the Empire (rebellion or anarchy).
    He is not required to give reports, as the Empire gets reports from local Imperial offices.


    Planets are ruled by themselves.
    They must only abide by two Imperial laws:
    -They are not allowed to build interstellar ships, wether it be plane-space or normal space ships
    This is to protect the lords trade rights as well as the Empire's territory.
    -The planetary governement is not allowed to prevent people to volunteer to join the Star Forces.

    Cooperation between the Planet and the lord are mostly on following issues. There is no limit, though.
    The lord may ask the planetary government to place a security force, independent of the government, to protect his property.
    The lord may volunterly invest into the planet.

    Imperial citizens are under Imperial law only, are subject to Imperial court, and may be punished according to these only.
    Imperial laws are harsher than most planetary governemnts.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My detailed answers and explainations on economy.
    These are mostly of my conclusion based on given facts.

    As I have said before, I believe a spacefaring civilization is independent from money.
    The only limiting resources are poeple to crew ships or whatever.

    My reason for these are that with recycling and robotic technology, a sparefaring civilization
    has complete access to all resources. And that practically for free. The only condition is of course
    they have to mine as much as needed. Mind you this doesn't mean natural resources are unlimited
    within a star system. Population grow will sooner or later used up resources despite all recycling tech.


    Doubts have been expressed that this money less and socialistic civilization cannot be.
    I believe it is a view based on the limited capacity of this planet.
    Humans mine and have to be paid and resources are scarce, hence, put a limit.
    Further we are not self-sufficient. Sel-sufficiency and the right balance is key to a money-less system.


    Now back to the Empire.
    Traders have to buy, sell, and ship goods from one system to another to earn money.
    From this money they have pay tax to the lords and the rent for the ships.
    The planet themselves mostly only pay indirectly trade tax as any other consumers.
    Some traders just offer shipping services, in this case the employer will have to pay trade tax.

    All in all, the Empire gets some money from renting ships, but this is by far not enough to run the Empire.

    So how can the Empire have money to pay all its employers?

    As always, money is the value that comes from available and mined resources.
    Self-sufficiency doesn't generate money, but over-mining does.
    The Empire's reserves are representated by the amound of over-mining capacity.
    This guarrantees its currency.
    Most systems are under a lord, and mining within falls under their jurisdiction not the Empire.
    Note that a lord may have monopoly over mining if he forbad any traffic other than his own.
    This impacts cooperation with the planet, though. They could stop trade by not selling.
    Money generated from such systems do not belong to the Empire, except indirectly through ship rent.
    Only systems under the rule of the Head of State (Emperor/Empress) generate money for the Empire.
    So far only Lakfakalle has been named as a territory under direct rule of the Head of State.
    Hints have been given to more, though.

    As the Empire gives territory to the nobles, it is probable for the Empire to mine system under a lord
    if need be. There has been no evidence to support this yet, except newly conquered system mined for
    immediate use by the Star Forces. Although, this mostly refered to anti-matter generation and mine(weapon) factories.


    So where does the money go and how is the cycle closed?
    The money the Empire pays will sooner or later return to the Empire in exchange for extra resources provided
    by the Empire.
    These resource of course can be in raw form or just in form of produced products. (doesn't matter)

    So what happens when a system is lost?
    If the system is a mining system, then it impacts the avaiable growth of the Imperial reserves.
    It doesn't impact Empire-only economy as it is already self-sufficient. (condition for money generation!)
    It does impact planetary economy as they need resources in exchange for Imperial money.
    This of course depends on how much an individual planet actually needs resources.
    So the trading business will see some impact. Lost planets and their goods will be gone.
    If another planet is dependent on that product it may impact jobs and lives.
    The planet suffering most is the one that is being lost, though,
    as it loses all export markets and has to compete in a new one.


    So how do you bring down the Empire?
    Take Empire systems, demoralize people so they don't volunteer to the Star Forces.
    Cut it apart so it cannot gather forces.
    These are being addressed indirectly in SnS4.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 10/16/2009, 7:29 pm

    It seems we have a demonstration of another force at work here... The picture posted by Almael seem to be faked by everseeing Information Bureau that seek to protect Empire's good reputation. You'd think princess Lafiel is eating fruit desert? Let's take a look at it before picture was modified by Bureau agents :
    Spoiler:


    "Cheers, Jinto"

    P.S. Some details on original was re-worked (eyes, hands, body) and all the new stuff added is painted by me. Btw i'm pretty happy how swine came out

    Almael, great post - lots of information, i got a few new ideas thanks to it and i'm going to add what you said here and previously into f.a.q. in first post.
    I'll post couple of more complex situations soon, just need to think about few things
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/18/2009, 3:01 pm

    Don't underestimate the imperial intelligence services.
    For example even famous people can't hide their true self:


    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Further on trade. I know I had mentioned this somewhere but for faq's sake...

    Foreign ships are not allowed in the territory of the Empire.
    Therefore, in order to trade with other nations, trade bases are build in border systems, where ship unload their goods for trade.

    This is means spies can't easily tresspass.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 10/19/2009, 6:50 am

    Almael wrote:Don't underestimate the imperial intelligence services.
    For example even famous people can't hide their true self:
    Yea, looks like this guy already had enough vodka, but i'm sure "original" is even worse Very Happy Just let me work on it a bit...
    P.s. Seems like i found myself a new hobby Very Happy

    Foreign ships are not allowed in the territory of the Empire.
    Therefore, in order to trade with other nations, trade bases are build in border systems, where ship unload their goods for trade.
    This is means spies can't easily tresspass.
    There are tons of ways to get spies into empire, i'm absolutely sure many of them serve in star forces including officer ranks. Though of course they mostly collect information and lack ability to quickly pass tactical information to UMK intelligence HQ, but they're still there... Wink

    You explained how individual sysems operate well. But i see some opportunities for corruption here Smile It seems the noble who's in charge of the system is quite independant and actualy posses great power and influence (within his system). The fact he can invest into system only increases the possibility for corruption. Here's how i see it:
    The noble invest into some profitable and exclusive production until he fully controll it (i don't mention illegal stuff yet if there's anything illegal at all) and create exclusive conditions for intelstellar trade for his own trade fleet. Of course we assume goods that can bring extra profit, but i'm sure there's plenty of such - when trade is limited.
    There's a lot of other possibilities i believe - the noble can virtualy buy whole planet with time (own every important industry on it's surface) and have the resources and manpower for about any dark scheme i can think of Very Happy The only thing that needs working on is motivation..

    Speakingt of which - It seems like in Abh society there's nothing motivates you to climb social ladder. You can't become more important person by your achievements as system govenor and gain more influence within Empire council or something. Yet Abhs are very excited people - they strive to achieve, they love competition and rivalry. It's almost as if their own society doesn't suite their own spirit. Without external threat - i'm not sure what motivates them except for ideology which doesn't seem to be as strong as brainwashing anyway. It's all unnatural - either they are geneticaly modified (brainwashed) to place "greater good" and empire above all else or i dunno...
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/19/2009, 9:02 am

    Corruption:
    Yes, the lord has great powers, but anything he does on the planet he has to neotiate with the planetary government.
    He can't just build anything he wants down there. The lord does not own the planet (more to this later).
    He does not have power over planetary business, except indirectly through interstellar trade or directly through his investment.
    This means if he creates a unique monopoly, he and the planet will profit.
    He can only have sole monopoly on anything that's not on any planet.

    All aside, he and the planet are being watched by imperial troops and intelligence, who regularly report to the Empire the current situation.
    If his actions are deemed dishonorable or dangerous to the Empire, he will probably be removed.
    Not to mention possible nasty clashes between him and the planetary government.

    Virtually buy a planet:
    It is possible for a lord to buy and own substantial part of a planet's industry.
    But he still has to do this under agreement and laws with the planetary government. If they allow his actions, then he may own the planet's industry.

    Another possibility and example is the planet Clasbul in the Sufagnoff system.
    This territory was given as a reward for imperial services to the current lord family.
    It was a dead rock planet. The lord then invested into terraforming the planet.
    If a lord does not have the money he can raise venture money. Venture money is easily to
    come by as it's a very profitable and many are willing to lend it for a profit.
    So a poor lord doesn't get to own the planet alone at first.
    In this case the lord's family had a great fortune due to good investments (probably by same kind of investment).
    [...](read COTS2 novel for more information)
    Terraforming was done, but the lord at the time didn't want it to be inhabitated.
    The reason was never revealed. The rumor and the reason for that was given as:
    "If an Abh were to want an entire planet for him or herself, it would be something very shameful."
    "If that was the case, he should have been ashamed of it as a kin of the stars."
    "But there are other points of view. He may have wished for some evolution to occur on the planet before allowing subjects to immigrate to it. Such an idea would be a very Abh like insane idea. But if this were the case, the question remains of why the Sfagnoff family did not brag about it."
    In short, Clasbul isn't owned by the lord.

    Speakingt of which - It seems like in Abh society there's nothing motivates you to climb social ladder.
    You can't become more important person by your achievements as system
    govenor and gain more influence within Empire council or something.
    Well, there are...
    Correct. All the governing powers lies within the Head of State, but the military units are under direct command of the crown prince/princess.
    And the candidates are subject to the former Emperor's council.
    Yes, lords don't have a say in the Empire, except they hold some government or military position wherein they advise the Head of State. Their advice is their power.
    Hence, no corruption possible within the leaders without being ousted.
    Corruption still might occure within the ministers.

    Being important or having a title is not that important, you get only respect when you deserves it. Title holders get due respect for title but not necessary anything more.

    The motivation of the common Abh is any of the following:
    -self perfection
    -self interest (in something, eg. hobby, harem, Spoor)
    -pursuit of something (eg. knowledge, adventure, love, historical note)
    -master things (eg. challenges, skills)
    -manipulate destinies (eg. as lord, commander, coupid)
    -for a higher good (a byproduct)
    -pursuit of ideology (not likely)

    So anything you want to do by heart, but not for power's sake, but your own sake.
    That's why I said they are egoists, and that's why their open tolerance and directness.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by spoor356 on 10/19/2009, 7:27 pm

    This section needs to be added to the Humankind Empire of Abh page on the wikia. . . oh and yeah, I'm finally back.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by JGZinv on 10/19/2009, 7:32 pm

    Or inversely just add a link to here, from there.. so people actually need to visit the site...
    thus inducing additional traffic.


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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by lymhfeubdach on 10/20/2009, 2:45 am

    I think Abh are just like human beings, they want love, play, and learn. Also I see the Abh like the japanese people, but live in space; for example, just like japanese people they see duty to empire first before even else.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by spoor356 on 10/20/2009, 8:48 pm

    http://seikai.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

    Tada! There is the website everyone. Sorry for not posting the link before. Anyhow, yeah I'll see about working on this. Forgive me but the originator is no longer working with me, so I had to use whatever templates left over and use brute force to construct many articles. If you want to see an example or two of my best work thus far please view the following *shameless self-advertising*:

    http://seikai.wikia.com/wiki/Beneej_Spoor
    http://seikai.wikia.com/wiki/Jinto_Linn
    http://seikai.wikia.com/wiki/Abriel_Lafiel
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by mitsuki lover on 10/23/2009, 12:58 pm

    In the case of Spoor's subordinate the self-interest would be self-preservation.
    And isn't Jinto a bit young to drink vodka?
    Which brings me to the following question:Can Abh get drunk like really really soused?I mean those that are Abh by birth like Lafiel and
    Spoor.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/23/2009, 2:24 pm

    mitsuki lover wrote:
    And isn't Jinto a bit young to drink vodka?
    Well, if anything it's üISCé (whisky), but I will leave that to our resident selfdeclared photoartist.

    mitsuki lover wrote:
    Which brings me to the following question:Can Abh get drunk like really really soused?I mean those that are Abh by birth like Lafiel and
    Spoor.
    Under normal circumstances, no they would die before that happens.
    Under not normal circumstances, yes they can, but that falls under confidential information.
    Read the lost sotries for more. *shameless ad*
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 10/26/2009, 10:35 am

    mitsuki lover wrote:In the case of Spoor's subordinate the self-interest would be self-preservation.
    And isn't Jinto a bit young to drink vodka?
    Which brings me to the following question:Can Abh get drunk like really really soused?I mean those that are Abh by birth like Lafiel and
    Spoor.
    Yes, in case of Spoor it's definately self-prevention - from pervertion
    Everyone can get drunk - proven by Vodka, denied by Almael Razz
    Isn't Jinto is around 20 by that time btw? He was around in beginning then he spent 3 years in academy and then at least year of service - should be about 21. And who said Jinto gonna drink anything? Judging from that pic i realized he was actualy smoking Very Happy
    Btw, Vodka is cleaner product than whiskey - you can drink much more of it without undesired effects... But back to topic - i don't think Abhs will die sooner than they get real drunk. Even though their organs work more efficiently - they still have their limit and it's what exactly what happen in our own (regular human) organs when we get drunk. But i'll try to ask some doctor if i'll see one Smile
    Another important thing is - why then alcohol plays such (important) role in Abh society? Especialy if they don't get much of the "effect". Yet we see glasses in abh hands often. They drink on every ocasion be it celebrating, even on ships before going on mission

    Well, when i try to compare Abhs to Japanese people it all makes a bit more sense, but let's not forget history - if Empire is any similar to Japan it's only true for very small period, starting from end of WWII... I'd say Abhs lack some of the Japanise traits...

    Almael - the lord can act along with planetary goverment. Intelligence and millitary? There's many ways to avoid being exposed or even attracting suspicion. Oh, i'd write a fanfic i guess, if only i was as good as you at it Wink
    I only have trouble finding any resource, good or business that would be profitable enough for the dark scheme...
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 10/26/2009, 12:46 pm

    AlexT wrote:
    Everyone can get drunk - proven by Vodka, denied by Almael
    But back to topic - i don't think Abhs will die sooner than they get real drunk.
    What's wrong with denying alcohol?
    I meant their stomage would explode before that happens.

    AlexT wrote:
    Isn't Jinto is around 20 by that time btw?
    He was born icy 935.
    Bots I icy 955+; age 20+
    Bots IV icy 959, age 24

    AlexT wrote:
    Another important thing is - why then alcohol plays such (important) role in Abh society?
    You have to read the novels.
    Basictly it's human ritual that they have adopted for occasions. It has only signifying meaning to an event.

    AlexT wrote:
    Intelligence and millitary? There's many ways to avoid being exposed or even attracting suspicion.

    Oh, i'd write a fanfic i guess, if only i was as good as you at it
    I only have trouble finding any resource, good or business that would be profitable enough for the dark scheme...
    Most of the time the Empire doesn't have much interest in interfering anyway.

    Please do. You may not be accustome to english, but you are better at writting than I am.
    Well, there are many ways to create schemes. History is a good source for trade wars.
    As for me, I just work out an idea, add events I want and somehow it becomes a scheme.
    A good business is food recipes from a planet. Wink
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by lymhfeubdach on 10/31/2009, 2:10 am

    Sometimes Abh system reminds of days old England, where nation had control over everything. However, unlike old England I think Abh much more carefully who they let in royal inner circle.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 11/1/2009, 7:11 pm

    Yep - they only let Abhs into inner circle, seems like a good way to keep up the standard Very Happy

    What bother me - that royal circle doesn't seem to change over time. Even though Almael explained a thing or two - i still don't get it what exactly you can do to get a title and why only a few royal families can become emperors without other families being able to. But since higher title mean only higher resposnsibility and no advantages then i guess i'd be happy with average title if i were Abh Smile
    __________________________________________________________________
    Btw, i just checked bots 3 (were looking for couple of screenshots i need) and i still try to understand what Hyde system received in exchange for Jinto staying away from there? He can still do things via his representatives.
    2 possible explanations:
    1. They just tricked little fool cuz abandoning sovereignty without any empire representative around to tell em what to do is the same thing as staying independent. Also - how is he supposed to fulfill his duty as count when he signed such an agreement? His level is simply not enough to make such decisions. At very least Empress should ask him "w.t.h.?" and assign a new noble.
    2. They just hated Jinto for being son of his father and didn't want him to be in charge. They'd actually accept other Noble. But it's just stupid.

    The whole story with that agreement is all wrong. It is clearly there for sentimental purpose of letting Jinto making choice. I can feel nothing but disgust for the whole planet. Linn found best solution when idiots like his "friend" Till said "yeah, let's commit suicide and kill whole planet!". Of course they viewed his decision to become system's noble as selling system out to abhs. But If only they'd receive real Abh noble i bet they'd shut up pretty quickly.
    It's obvious to me that Till Corinth just power hungry bastard. First - while he was Linn's comrade he pretty quickly distanced himself from Linn to be viewed like opposition. He didn't try to save Linn, he was behind that execution. Then he want's the system's noble to stay away so that he gain all the power. He comes back to planet and present the result as his personal victory so that he continue to rule the planet. At very least he's just hypocrite.

    Next thing - they executed the count, which means capital offense against empire. No matter what Jinto does - Empire will restore justice which means they'll just come to planet and ask em to deliver those responsible or else they just bombard the surface.
    Population? Barbarians. They seek to kill a man whom they elevted to be a president just because he made the only possible decision. That planet deserve to be burned to hell.

    Finaly - was Linn good father or not, he was still a father. It doesn't seem that he used to beat him as he was a child? He just didn't see him often but it's cuz he had largest responsibility on the planet. It is Jinto who betrays his father even though there's no real reason to hate him.
    At very least he should be at least angry with people who killed him and seek some sort of vengence. I do not suggest that he just kill everyone directly responsible (what i'd do) but at least not being so calm about it....

    Maybe we should start a topic like "What if..."? Smile Like what you'd do if you were Jinto Very Happy
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by JGZinv on 11/1/2009, 9:41 pm

    Worthy of discussion perhaps... You mirrored a lot of my points on BOTS3.
    Lafiel should have invoked the glare on Till like she did on the Baron.


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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 11/2/2009, 8:14 am


    What bother me - that royal circle doesn't seem to change over time. Even though Almael explained a thing or two -
    i still don't get it what exactly you can do to get a title and why only a few royal families can become emperors without other families being able to.
    Some inepth explainations can be found at www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Shrine/4777/Seikai/culture.html
    Also read Cots I to III
    But I will try to explain it concisely here.

    First an explaination on (asian) family tree. (I dunno the precise genology expressions so it will be a layman's explaination.)
    As a family grows it branches off into many lines. But only one line, the line that keeps the book, is the true family line.
    This also applies to the royal families. Only the main line may carry the name Ablïarsec. The branchers may only carry the title "bausec" as indication of royal descent.

    From each royal family only one can be the top candidate for the throne. If a sibling fails another could take the top position.
    However, as military rank decides who will be next in line, catching up is difficult. So a replacement has practically no chance.
    Usually, the top candidate will carry on the family line. Descendents from siblings will carry the title bausec.

    There are eight kingdomes and eight royal families.
    There are twenty-eight other founding families.

    Traditionally the Abrials have been leading, hence, they became the royalty.
    The other founding families each had been serving in specific capacities.
    In theory, it is possible for them to become Emperor if all candidates fail or there are no more Abrials.
    In theory, a fleet commander acts as Emperor tempore if the fleet is cut off from the empire.

    Titles and lordships are given by the Empire.
    Only royalty and peerage have a title.
    To earn a social title, one has to become at least a captain (Hectocommander=Baron).
    To earn a lordships, one has to serve the Empire with exceptional service either in the military or as Imperial minister.
    Lordships are hereditary.

    The title of a lord changes with the "growth" of his territory.
    Grand Duke : 3 inhabited planets
    Duke : 2 inhabited planets
    Marquess : 100 million inhabitants
    Earl: inhabited planet
    Viscount : rocky planet
    Baron : no rocky planet

    ICY 952:
    There are 200000 nobles; 1600 lords with 25000 members.
    The Abh supposedly ruled over 1500 inhabited worlds and more than 20000 semi-inhabited systems.


    i still try to understand what Hyde system received in exchange for Jinto staying away from there?
    Nothing.
    You misunderstand what's being done.
    What they did was the condition for capitulation or for coming into the Empire.
    The planet Martine accepted Imperial rule and Linn lordship under the condition that Jinto...yada yada.
    It's an agreement between the government and the lord so it's not exactly the business of the Empire...(or so Morioka wanted to explain)

    And well, Linn's a traitor because he never talked to them first.
    He was the president, but unlike the American President (the only one) he can be convicted as any other for his decision.


    Like what you'd do if you were Jinto
    Nay, I can't imagine that. Razz
    He has no power or anything to counter without causing tragedies.
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by AlexT on 11/2/2009, 3:20 pm

    But again - what this condition gave them? Sure everybody hates Jinto, but still. I imegine what Empress would say about it Very Happy :
    "Jinto, why ain't you at work at your system? Hanging with my granddaughter elsewhere, polluting our royal genetic pool, hm? We received reports that things are not going well at Martine: smugglers all around the place, planar tech is freely availible, UMK fastfoods and marts, people smoke weed and sell sex dolls that look like admiral Spoor, fire laser cannons at Abh ships for fun..."
    "Srorry m'am, but i can't get as close as 1 light second away to it"
    " Why is that?"
    "Cuz everybody hates me there and they made me sign an agreement that force me to stay ways in exchange for Martine abandoning it's independence."
    "Jinto, you're such an idiot!"

    Linn didn't talk to them first - ok, it's his fault, thought we don't know their laws and maybe it was his right to make such decision under given circumstances. It still smell of conspiracy Smile There's no reason why Linn couldn't make public anouncement: "Dear people, we are screwed (details included), but i made a clever plan - i'll make myself Abh royalty so that i continue to be your president" and he'd get the support. Who else deserve to be a noble if not the president chosen by majority?
    The reasons he didn't do that - maybe there's already was a competition for abh noble status by that time and he realized he have to act quickly before the other (power hungry and evil) candidate offered himself as potential noble. Linn's plan could involve Jinto as well but Till was faster - brainwashed Jinto and sent him away before he could hear what his father had to say.
    The fact that Linn allowed himself to be executed is suspicious too - it's a good sign that he actualy tried to make things right. It usualy happen when guy try to do something good - it doesn't happen to truly evil people Smile Naturaly i'm always suspicious for such a "nice" guys like Till - when he came by the night and said "Jinto, omg, you have to run!" . But maybe it's just me...we evil people need to be careful whom we trust Wink
    Anyway - Linn actions do not deserve such extreme punishment - he was a president - the man who represent the will of the most! He had the right to make the decision until proven otherwise. In the end - remember that other planet and president communicating with Spoor?
    Finaly - they still killed an Abh (formal but still), even worse - they executed the noble, the one in charge of their system! Such a deed cannot go unpunished and Abhs said it themselves
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    Re: Abh life - society and culture

    Post by Almael on 11/2/2009, 6:31 pm

    You forgot to mention he had laid his hands on her! And does parties and pay the bills for his unit.

    Anyway, I don't really want to get into the minds of such people, but I guess they though:
    why they didn't think about it first. So they resented and were jealous, and hence, wanted to destroy Rock Linn and his family as revenge.
    Remember that the Martinese are 2000+ years behind the Empire and the other humans.
    Jinto might be a smart kid among his peers but still an ancient human...
    Seylnay, should be told.

    And Till, it seems he's the only one who has those ears on the planet. Wink

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