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    Space colonization

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    Almael
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    Space colonization

    Post by Almael on 10/25/2009, 12:33 pm

    As it is, I think Bush's moon and beyond plan is either going down the drain or put back for a while. I don't think congress will aprove any increase in money for NASA, nor do I think it does nay good. It might be better to let it rest for some time and then start enew with better tech at hand in a better political environment.
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    AlexT
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by AlexT on 10/26/2009, 7:43 am

    Yea, especially when planet is one step away from hell. We need to switch to new way of living first - new energy sources (i.e. all cars into electromobiles) high efficiency manufacture, make natural energy sources less of strategic resource etc. But most important - freeing our minds.And this will take a while longer unless we just somehow erradicate all the prejudice, superstition and idioticy.
    For example i know a man who turned into "baptist" christian and now says he won't make long term investments cuz the world will soon end. Do you think he'd support some space programm? He's not even sure we need medicine and probably misses the stone age Very Happy
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    Almael
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by Almael on 10/26/2009, 10:28 am

    Yeah, this is a really troublesome planet to administer. Way below the likes of Abh preference.

    AlexT wrote:
    For example i know a man who turned into "baptist" christian and now says he won't make long term investments cuz the world will soon end. Do you think he'd support some space programm? He's not even sure we need medicine and probably misses the stone age
    No, I think he will support other unnecessary things. It's all the same.

    I had been thinking of having this issue in the lost story 3, but still haven't decided to have it as a separate encounter or mixed it into the description of the main incident. Or just normally scatter it ...
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    mitsuki lover
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by mitsuki lover on 10/26/2009, 2:07 pm

    I'd say we still have 50-100 years before we actually begin serious space colonization as opposed to just sending astronauts up every so often.
    As far as it goes there are two basic type of Christians.The type that will end up selling everything and go sit on the hill top whenever they hear the word "Rapture" and the type who will keep working at whatever their job is until Doomsday and beyond.
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    AlexT
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by AlexT on 10/26/2009, 4:54 pm

    mitsuki lover wrote:I'd say we still have 50-100 years before we actually begin serious space colonization as opposed to just sending astronauts up every so often.
    The main problem of space is lack of commercial interest beyond launching commercial and millitary satelites. What Science realy need to find is something to invest into up there. Energy source, minerals, space manufacturing - whatever. So far space programms only consume resources to satisfy theoretical interests of group of people that is far smaller than majority of planet population (look above).
    I wanna see the day they gonna launch private commercial spaceship building, i'd buy one But for now - i know how expensive it is to maintain "water" ship, let alone space one...
    Spoiler:
    As far as it goes there are two basic type of Christians.The type that will end up selling everything and go sit on the hill top whenever they hear the word "Rapture" and the type who will keep working at whatever their job is until Doomsday and beyond.

    To make story short - except for hypocrites, which is actualy most widely spread "religion" on earth, the first type is acualy quite rare. Depends on geography thought. In the end i realized it's always up to what kind of a man you are, rest is just forms and labels for what you believe is right. Those that can think independantly and accept responsibility for being what they are will always think like more or less free men while those weak and scared will always seek shelter from their own fears and complexes, be it god, buddah, buggy man, whatever. Problem is - the second type became increasingly widely spread because of "ease of use"
    It's like iPhone vs linux based communicator Except you're not even given GUI - you have to learn and figure it all out, add or build stuff yourself, but in the end - your possibilities are endless and you also gain understanding of how it works and you can create new things, change what's already there.. As your knowledge grow - your understanding of what's good changes as well... But why you need it if you have iphone? Someone already thought about what's good for you, It's ready to use, it's nice and shiny, maybe it lack tons of features and not much you can change, but it's so comfortable to use as long as you stick to all-powerful "default"
    I guess i got carried away here Anyway - what better illustration we need other than Seikai itself? The books is all about it...
    No, I think he will support other unnecessary things. It's all the same.
    No, it's not. I seen it way too often to know. There's difference between people who do something because they like and want to do (realizing importance for mankind etc) and those who do something because they just told to do. Those mostly do not seek to improve - they'd just do what they do for ages and thus the question about space would never even arose. After all they burned every heretic who even said Earh was round and there's space and stars for a reason...


    Last edited by AlexT on 10/27/2009, 4:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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    JGZinv
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by JGZinv on 10/26/2009, 6:10 pm

    I'd caution against criticizing religions when one has not actually spent time with the original source material. Just because there are examples of people that do or say weird, odd, out of the ordinary, or generally socially unacceptable things - does not mean that has squat to do with the actual
    doctrines of the belief.

    There is much distortion and perversion, many say they are one thing, but practice another.

    Discern what is correct first, then you may see what is and is not aligned.


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    Almael
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by Almael on 10/26/2009, 7:03 pm

    [quote="AlexT"]
    mitsuki lover wrote:I'd say we still have 50-100
    years before we actually begin serious space colonization as opposed to
    just sending astronauts up every so often.
    AlexT wrote:
    The main problem of space is lack of commercial interest beyond launching commercial and millitary satelites.
    True. Until we have cheap space technology, I don't think any
    affordable commercial products are going to be possible. The most
    likely useable interest now is simply energy from space, wether that be
    solar or earth's magnetfield. Still it costs a lot and with all the
    trash up there... might not be for a while.

    Spoiler:

    HERESY!

    I guess most people prefer the safety of certaincy. This has nothing to
    do with being good or bad, though. Just another level or complexity of
    the human mind.

    "Ah, the good old days when men were men, women were clad glad of it, and everything had its order." *pseudo quote*



    There is much distortion and perversion, many say they are one thing, but practice another.
    Sadly, I have to agree.
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    AlexT
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by AlexT on 10/26/2009, 7:24 pm

    If memory serves me right - there's only one source material worth attention - usualy a certain book. I spent enough time with both - source and end reults to decide things for myself. But what you're talking about is interpretation - some understand the same stuff differently than the others. I only judge the end result - the effect it has on majority of population and it all that matters to me. I criticize not the religions but the people for their interpritation and conclusions. For me - the cause and effect are indivisible but i always try to judge effect only to not fall into trap of prejudice myself...
    But like i said - there are people who do the right stuff no matter what they believe and in vice versa, still i think the majority only find means to justify their bliss ignorance, prejudice and stubborness even though "source material" doesn't tell them to. This may cause problem when you need population support and interest for such huge projects like various space exploration programms - something where religous people usualy least active, just like they don't like Colliders or genetics for some reason
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    mitsuki lover
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by mitsuki lover on 10/28/2009, 11:43 am

    I agree that interpretation is important.I mean 1 Timothy 6:20 has been misinterpreted a lot by Creationists who use the King James Version translation of the word 'gnosis' as 'science' to mean evolution is some how 'false' science.When actually the word 'gnosis' as corrected translated by the New American Standard and other modern Bible versions simply means 'knoweldge' or in this case 'spiritual knowledge'
    (Paul was attacking the Gnostics.)
    Any ways that is getting off the main point a bit.
    Though there are people who will abuse the Bible to try to show that science is wrong.
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    Almael
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by Almael on 10/28/2009, 2:37 pm

    To put the last final words that says all from the book (don't quite remember the wording)
    "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

    So my hopefully insightful interpretation is:Religion rules the way you live by with others and yourself, but science or governement rule everything worldly.
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    JGZinv
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by JGZinv on 10/28/2009, 3:26 pm

    Pretty close...

    Matthew 22:21

    Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

    The KJV I think uses "render unto Caesar" which is the usual one remembered.
    To prove your point some, everyone remembers the first half, but how have the masses forgotten
    the more important latter part of the verse...


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    AlexT
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by AlexT on 10/28/2009, 4:47 pm

    Spoiler:
    mitsuki lover wrote:Though there are people who will abuse the Bible to try to show that science is wrong.
    It's defensive reaction cuz they think science is constatly "try" to show bible is wrong. Which is not true of course because science doesn't have to - there's no facts it needs to disprove, only things you can take on faith which is beyond science's focus. Science need not to serve anything but pursue of truth.
    Reminds me of this quote:
    "The essence of balance is detachment. To embrace a cause, to grow fond
    or spiteful, is to lose one's balance, after which, no action can be
    trusted. Our burden is not for the dependent of spirit."

    Or...most of abuses usualy come from various "cults" (even though they call themselves new "churches") and it's fanatics - it's P.R., like in any organization and commercial structure. Cuz they need nubmers. For example most "churches" here (where i live) are commercial organizations. It's even common to see em telling their followers where to invest $, for whom to vote etc.
    'Men must attempt to develop in themselves and their children liberation from the sense of self...men must be free from boundaries, patterns and consistencies in order to be free to think, feel and create in new ways' [Luke Rhinehart, 'The Diceman']

    Almael, my point is - remember when all the fuzz started about goverments banning research in genetics, cloning etc.? It was the first time when i truly saw how religious point of view conflicted with scientific one, probably since dark ages...
    What if the same conflict will pull the strings when it comes to any space-related stuff? Simple example - we won't be able to create Abhs and send em to colonize other planets
    Or imagine tomorow we'll learn that our sun will explode in 200 years... and some will be even happy to just sit&wait instead of directing every resource to get the h.. out of here

    As for commercialization - why is is to expensive to get things back on earth? It's not like lifting things to orbit - you can just throw stuff down there with parachutes attached Also - there's been numerous project of orbit elevators...
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    Almael
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    Re: Space colonization

    Post by Almael on 10/28/2009, 7:04 pm

    JGZinv wrote:To prove your point some, everyone remembers the first half, but how have the masses forgotten
    the more important latter part of the verse...
    Thanks.
    As AlexT said, and i agree, most people tend to take the easy way out, so many seem or pretend to believe that being able to cite the book x-times legitimates them as being "true" believers.
    But that's missing the point. Sure knowing the word is necessary to understand, but the question is : Do you understand? ... the meaning, the spirit, the idea behind it?
    Many may study it like Acid does (come out already!), but somewhere along the path of life it seems many trail off.

    AlexT wrote:
    What if the same conflict will pull the strings when it comes to any space-related stuff? Simple example - we won't be able to create Abhs and send em to colonize other planets
    Or imagine tomorow we'll learn that our sun will explode in 200 years... some will be even happy and just sit&wait.

    As for commercialization - why is is to expensive to get things back on earth? It's not like lifting things to orbit - you can just throw stuff down there with parachutes attached Also - there's been numerous project of orbit elevators...
    I personally strife for freedom of mind, knowledge to help me in whatever, and to be humane as a human being.
    Some of your questions will be worked on in the current lost story3 (If I come that far). I know you will love it. The story covers social and civilization issues after all.
    The beginning might have seemed strange and insignificant, but...
    In short such conflict have been common like witch hunting or progroms or simply ethnic cleansing, but are there other solutions or possibilities? Well, possibly but they are unpopular, and hence, unlikely to happen.
    It's expensive because space, although a vacuum, is a hazard which erodes material. Machinery has to be repaired or replaced within 3-5 years. This may change if we have bunkers in space. Supply still need to be brought from the earth up there, this includes heatshield or inflatable heatshield.
    Until we got meteorite or comet mining system this is all there is.
    Anyway, the elevator could theoretically be build within a life time, but only if mankind as a whole works on it. With territorial conflicts, economy of today ...not anytime soon.

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