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    Scifi weapons

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    Almael
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    Scifi weapons

    Post by Almael on 11/14/2009, 1:53 pm

    Posts moved from the Lost Story Character details thread.

    Almael on Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:03 pm wrote:
    AlexT wrote: - the key of my design is that "Z" type shape -
    Can have any shape you want but it should be either economic compact or elegant whichever is less bulky.

    AlexT wrote:
    I wanna try "modular" approach now - rifle that would still look somewhat big but would consist of separate parts.
    Certainly good, but I dunno what kind of kits they need to add except some big bluster addition or seeker/scope.
    If you mean the kind to boost power eg. turning a SMG to a full rifle
    to a sniper rifle, well, this is practically difficult to design.

    AlexT wrote:
    Maybe transformable, though it's not very realistic - there's no
    excuse in moving parts even in laser rifle except for stock and handle.
    If it able to transform to become smaller - why not to make it such in
    the first place..
    BINGO! But as some say it's intimidating. Of course if it's possible some would say "COOL!" Laughing Or Judge Dredd's gun with variable ammo.

    AlexT wrote:
    Bbtw, Mass Effect has very cool transformable guns:
    Well, my transformable gun fron some anime is better. Razz (pistol/rifle/sniper)
    Also the Gundam Turn A transforable weapons are also more efficient.
    Mass Effect just jumps on with some unnecessary extra mechanics from what I saw on the add.

    Well, if it got two 'barrel' why not put the other above instead of the
    seemingly purposeless overhead? In this design class Kite's gun is
    nice, too, althought, the same design was used long ago by some other
    anime I don't remember.

    AlexT wrote:
    And no way someone can use M60 efficiently like that...
    Well, there are people who can but those don't last long. Twisted Evil For some reason the big guys are always the first to break. They can only go faster or carry more.

    AlexT wrote:
    Strange, but among 10 ppl 1 is often naturaly gifted at shooting.
    Yeah.

    AlexT wrote:
    As for laser rifle - both 2 hands and stock are needed for accuracy.
    Even BB rifle need it to be efficient at 200-300 m, i'm not even
    talking about 500-1000. It depends on experience of shooter a lot, but
    you still want em for your average abh soldier, though our
    hecto-commander prefer to dual wield pistols since he figured that his
    abh nature allow him to be very ambidexterous which is also result of
    his love for knives.
    Well, a laser could be directed geek and the aim corrected by the computer.
    200m is normal. 400m is battlefield, but that is passe since WWII.
    Without a scope a sniper trainee must shoot a certain distance further with a normal rifle. Wink
    These guys have those natural super vision. A gifted person can only hit as far as 250m.
    I could do that with a bad aligned iron sight.

    AlexT wrote:
    Btw, why Abhs would want bayonets? Unlike our crazy
    HC average abhs don't like knives and any other "cold" weapons. It's
    not elegant...you know - blood, guts and ... Very Happy
    It's brutal. Laughing
    Who said they don't like knives? You know there are people who collect
    shiny engraved but utterly useless and low quality knifes.
    But would you go on a battlefield without a backup if your gun fails?
    I wouldn't be surprise if there is a rifle that has a bayonet stored in it which reveals itself when needed.

    Edit:
    I also like Liam's handgun from Earth Final Conflict

    On of the most compact designs.

    Other guns from that show:


    Almael on Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:44 pm wrote:
    Maybe I should say some more on differences between normal guns and future weapons tech.
    Aside from before mentioned points lets go deeper into the inner workings.
    Normal gunpowder weapons need only a few parts:
    -a barrel with breach
    -firing pin mechanism (simple, semi-auto, full-auto etc.)
    -trigger & safety mechanism
    -extras (for cooling, handgrip, iron sight, scope etc.)

    Future weapon technology will obviously be designed to be in similar parts for convenience:
    -weapon system
    -firing, trigger & safety system
    -extras
    However, the weapon system itself is very complicated compared to a simple barrel.
    It is likely to be custom designed for the specific weapon design.
    The
    core cannot just be exchanged for a more powerful core, because the
    circuits directing or regulating the power also have to be replace.
    Since the firing or control system consist of some 'chips' a change of the weapon system would practically equal a new weapon.

    For the same reasons 'extending' or boosting components are difficult to make work.
    Somehow
    these will have to be integrated into the core weapon system and still
    not exceed the limits of the power circuits, which is unlikely.

    In order to make these possible
    1- the power control circuit of the weapon has to be a part of it's own.
    2- the 'firing core' or emitter
    Of course if you can make it that powerful then why not doing so from the start?
    For
    example, in Star Trek the phasers have the electronic
    control&safety circuit, the power&trigger control, (plasma
    generator) prefire chamber, emitter.
    Here, the prefire chambers and emitter could be replaced, as intended for Phaser Type I&II.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now to electron lasers.
    The weapon has at it's core a electron power regulator, which usually is an accelerator.
    Then the electron are directly used for light generation or another medium is used for the transition of energies.
    Here the accelerator is the power limit, so is the medium.
    Let's say the accelerator component consist of superconductors which could manage more power flowing through them.
    If so then by expanding the volume or number of mediums the weapon could be upgraded.
    Only
    problem remaining is the emission. The original medium emits light at
    the front which will be occupied by the extra medium, so the light
    emission has to be redirected as to include both original and extra
    medium emission.

    So the my scifi solution would be Laser ducting through the mediums:

    A
    design which somehow allows the light produced by the medium to be
    directed into a special channel. This channel formes the final laser
    beam.
    By stacking mediums and channel extentions a weapon could be upgraded.
    Downside: the weapon's nuzzle design is simple

    Almael on Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:01 pm wrote:
    I think I will move some above posts to the other thread sometime later.


    Anyway, here are some inspirations for you:
    Special Training for NATO/UN deployment forces
    This is not fun for both instructors and pupils. Instructors must deal
    with a thousand pupils a day, while the soldiers must learn this in
    very short time.
    Korean selfdefense Well, it looks nice but not as practical as above, because the condition is that you face each other off.

    Of course it's excessive to have this writen or in movies, because it's too long or the fight ends too quick. Laughing

    Edit: Btw. if you watch the close shooting in the first video, you see him firing in full-auto 3 shots.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by AlexT on 11/17/2009, 9:06 am

    Huh, I needed a lot of time to think about various things discussed here - too much information Smile I haven't come to a conclusion regarding laser rifle design but as soon as i'll have a real quality pic i'll need weapons for i'll post some variants so there's something to discuss.
    I was trying to figure out "tranformer" rifle but it's too complex to make quickly, but is very possible since it's energy weapons vs bullet type - you don't need such a long hard parts...

    As for the last part with link to video of combat knife use - yea, nice, this is it. Good school btw, i'd apply Razz
    Here's what i think and know about it:
    Spoiler:
    The first one is about technique, second is about distance.
    Second video is more simple approach - good for "i lost my rifle somewhere" situations on battlefield for average soldier who's scared of his opponent (and this is actualy main factore here - video #1 is no good for noob and close range is sure scary as hell), but it's simple and efficient. Notice knife is mostly distracting factor that make you focus on it while you get punched old style Wink

    Instructor on first video rely on mistake made by student too much and is too "bold". It's your pro vs noob situation. When you don't know whom you're facing your first swing is pretty "safe" - you don't "open up" so much and tests your opponent speed and skill first.

    Knife fight are always about balance - the more effort you put into your attack the less defended you are. If your attack is light, short range and quick - you don't risk much. If it's long/deep and you put much strength/mass/inertia to it the more you pay if it fail, however military pros often prefer second - more brutal approach as i noticed.

    You can always roughly tell if style is offensive or defensive by how knife is being held. Upside-down - it's surely more defensive, short range, quick series of swings type cuz you can't perform longer range attacks. Good when you know aikido as well
    When you hold blade pointing sharp edge at the enemy - it's usualy offensive/precise but not very quick attacks. You always try to have some space between you and opponent in this mode cuz it makes you more vulnerable at close range. It's same as more offensive HtH styles.
    Of course you can quickly rotate it - something average people won't do efficiently.

    Interesting thing is -there's no real "schools" of fighting with knives - it's either part of some HtH discipline so everyone develop their own.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by Almael on 11/17/2009, 10:10 am

    Spoiler:

    You are correct as to technique.

    However, as to the situation on the battlefield, you are never facing an enemy alone.
    If you face off one enemy someone else will shoot you down. So the second situation has little chance to come to a fight, but if it does you can practically use any technique. Most people don't have it trained done to the bone anyway so anything goes.

    The first situation occures more often on patrols or traps than on the battlefield. So it's a good idea to learn it so you can do it automatically. Also if someone can't use his weapon, he likely repairs it or hide until is forced into close quarter.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by JGZinv on 11/18/2009, 2:57 pm

    Or you can plant an ambush.... claymores... natural traps... use the terrain and get up high.

    Most important thing is awareness imo.


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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by AlexT on 11/19/2009, 8:10 am

    I'm afraid those you mentioned are good for Rambo mostly. Modern warfare is about speed - you don't have a month to sit in a forest and set up natural traps Wink
    Modern ambush is when artillery, air strike or remote charges shake your house followed by many men with painted/masked faces coming to ruin your party Wink
    I'm not sure there's even a need for war front - range and speed of weapon deployment is too great so it's all about: "we captured your missile site while you took our supply line" Entire armies often exist only to allow a handful of men to achieve some ultra-important goal. And those men operate at such range and environment that knife can become the most effective weapon used in entire conflict.
    There's a nice ending in MW2 about it btw Wink

    P.S. Almael, did you receive my PM 2 days ago?
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by JGZinv on 11/19/2009, 3:39 pm

    The example I interpreted was of one man against multiple opponents

    Since it's one on multiple, without unlimited weapons or outside assistance, then traps
    are largely necessary, as is awareness of the surrounding area..


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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by Almael on 11/19/2009, 6:52 pm

    AlexT wrote:I'm afraid those you mentioned are good for Rambo mostly.
    John Rambo ftw! Even his flesh and bones are worth an army.

    AlexT wrote:
    Modern warfare is about speed - you don't have a month to sit in a forest and set up natural traps Wink
    You read too much official stuff, go read something from Robin Moore.

    AlexT wrote:
    P.S. Almael, did you receive my PM 2 days ago?
    [/quote]
    Oops, didn't notice. Will look now.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by AlexT on 11/19/2009, 9:09 pm

    Rambo was realistic in 1st movie and maybe the last one Smile
    Almael, i'd agree if it wasn't a bit different. Those men are all real heroes. Sadly - the time for heroes have passed...
    Military still (including SF) receive their heroic tasks from time to time, but they no longer handle much of what that realy shapes the world. Maybe those that ex-. do though.

    Anyway - it supposed to be Sci-Fi weapons topic so lets keep talking about Abh weapons as well Smile Though i realized there's not much to know for us here - Abhs do not make many weapons for themselves - they limit their arsenal to hand held guns and sometimes rifles (assault rifle max). As for any planetary operations - i suspect they never waged full-scale ground battles so they are limiting it mostly to covert operations or just hire some mercs without having to take care about weapons at all.

    The only problem i have is that laser pistol seen in anime is pretty large and strange looking - should i ignore it and just make design of my own or still rely on anime as source for original material here? Almael, is there a good discription of a guns in books? (Oh, well, will i'll ever be able to get my hands on em? It seems they are out of stock even in russia...And i just can't agree on anything but real paper book Smile )
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by JGZinv on 11/20/2009, 4:44 am

    If you need to import something, I can probably get it.
    Don't particularly care where I send it.


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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by Almael on 11/20/2009, 10:18 am

    AlexT wrote:Those men are all real heroes. Sadly - the time for heroes have passed...
    They are always needed at least in terms of politics. As to real, now they are part of a big machinery, an 'orchestrated event'.


    As for any planetary operations - i suspect they never waged full-scale ground battles so they are limiting it mostly to covert operations or just hire some mercs without having to take care about weapons at all.
    Yes.


    should i ignore it and just make design of my own or still rely on anime as source for original material here?
    Almael, is there a good discription of a guns in books? (Oh, well, will i'll ever be able to get my hands on em? It seems they are out of stock even in russia...And i just can't agree on anything but real paper book Smile )
    It's not strange it's quite typical (old age 60') anime weapon design.
    Well, design your own if you got mercs, also don't forget some poeple collect weapons from past and defeated enemies.
    I have no books on weapons. I have a doc on convoy warfare, a bunch of aircraft books (my favs) and some novels. Admitedly I got special experience, but that's all. The majority of my knowledge on weapons comes from tech news and surfing finds. I saw some books on the net but never read more than the chapter titles. Hmmm, I remember seeing some club or so site on guns...*searches*
    Maybe this Forum. (I will add more when I find them)

    Edit: Gary's site
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by mitsuki lover on 11/27/2009, 2:10 pm

    You can also check your local library to see if they have any books on the subject.For example there's the Shooter's Bible.
    Our library also has copies of books that deal with Civil War era weapons from both the North and South.I know not Sci Fi but interesting still.
    Personally I liked the hand laser that they used in Lost In Space a lot better than the phaser on Star Trek.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by AlexT on 11/27/2009, 5:54 pm

    Um, well i'll be honest - the real guns is not something i have trouble with access to Very Happy
    But there's a world of difference between projectile kinetic weapons and energy weapons - if you read previous almael posts you'll see.
    The energy weapons are very light or do not require gun to be large at where you'd expect classical pistol be and in vise versa.

    So far i came to a conclusion that the main thing to consider is where to place the battery. This will define the rest of the design. Battery is the largest and heaviest part of any laser/energy rifle anyway....
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by JGZinv on 11/27/2009, 8:56 pm

    Depends on what you're talking about...

    Is it going to be a pistol, or a cannon?

    If the former, then the battery should be over or slightly ahead of the grip so the weight is centered properly. If the latter, then make it a backpack or some kind of external device that hooks to the emitter itself.


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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by Almael on 11/29/2009, 1:23 pm

    Almael Yesterday at 2:53 am wrote:
    Well, if it's simple gun the center of mass should be in the hilt or handle. (max dexterity)
    External source connections reminds me of Cpt Future's guns. *nostalgic*
    Certainly a good idea for infantery 'cannon' sized weapon.

    I
    have seen some ideas to have handles at the sides, might work for heavy
    weapons that you more or less hold close to your body or for lying down.

    Edit:
    @AlexT: I found some books you might be interested
    need pay -_-
    e-bomb
    infos

    Ok, now to obvious things but not (clearly) said.
    Usually people say energy weapons have the advantage that they are munitionless, and hence, lighter etc. Well, this is only true if it's about a big system that can feed energy directly from it's reactor (which ever that may be).
    For anything smaller, some kind of battery is necessary. The reason being, that small reactors can't deliver enough power in a short time or are just too heavy.
    A battery simply means that chemical energy stored in form of gunpowder is now stored in form of (electrical) energy. Unlike munition when the weapon is fired the weapon does not get lighter, because there is no weight loss. So an energy weapon is not necessarily lighter.
    The weight advantage can only come from energy density difference between battery type and gunpowder.
    In the past some had the idea of wireless energy transfere (tesla, 60's scifi), well, IMHO this is even worse. For this some central energy source is necessary, an easy target. It wastes energy by sending in all direction. Also, the enemy can use it, too. In other words you supply the enemy, too.

    Anyway, here are the docs I could gather just now.
    pswd: "Abh.power.play"
    I only skimed through, doesn't really give you the answers you want but gives enough insight to the techs.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by mitsuki lover on 11/30/2009, 3:32 pm

    In Star Trek(at least in the Original Series)they used disposable power packs.Kirk makes a comment on finding so many power packs discarded in the episode where they're on the one earth-like world where the Koms conquered the Yangs.
    Lost In Space used the aforementioned battery type.In "One Of Our Dogs Is Missing"Will is seen putting the entire arsenal back together after Dr.Smith took them apart to 'Clean them'.Three completed batteries are on the work table as Will is shown with a near finished gun.
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    Re: Scifi weapons

    Post by Almael on 11/30/2009, 3:40 pm

    Well, dispossable battery packs are certainly a solution, but then it's like having munition again, just in form of energy packs, though.
    It would be ideal to have some kind of fluidic fuel that also dubs as munition....something like the acid guns in some games. Actually, an effective weapon against lifeforms (alien blood or spit!), just range is bad.

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