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    Sex in games

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    Almael
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    Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 3/2/2017, 5:18 pm

    It looks like the game industry is on having sex in games as a standard feature in the future.
    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1013251/Sex-in-Games-The-Exciting
    A detailed analysis and planning/creation recommendation representation at the GDC.
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    spoor356
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by spoor356 on 3/2/2017, 5:44 pm

    I will have to read it. May take time to deliver a more nuanced look on the article, but as of late for a multiple reasons it has become a contentious topic. I feel if games; despite the true research now finally being conducted in academia; if they are to ever be taken seriously must expand their fields and depth of writing. Some people may consider this element crude, but there's been a history behind sex and sexuality in games that one can review already.

    I'd recommend research or material by Dr. Anthony Mora for the history of sex and sexuality (media representations of it) in the United States. For research on games, I'd recommend the writings by Dr. Vittorio Marone.

    I hope to pen work on it someday.
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    Almael
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 3/3/2017, 11:33 am

    Thanks for the references.
    Well, I don't know about sex games in the west other than those coffee cases. But like other I think a lot more people heard of the japanese eroge games. And from what I see they are pretty much at the forefront for the past 20 years.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaBR-4C5Yxo

    Not to mention the more advanced vocaloid (~12 years), Hatsune Miku and all the related freeware. Remember my post at Tenchi. (Can't repost since I lost the links on my dead computer)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNSxakjE3YM

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    spoor356
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by spoor356 on 3/3/2017, 2:44 pm

    Hello there,

    Well for the West, or more broadly I am interpreting not strictly as say just the activity, but the degrees of attraction or other types of representation. To see an example of a Western conflict of interest where some people underestimated its importance is the representation of Samus Aran prior to Other M and the reactions to it.

    Sex in part goes into how in a narrative men and women may or may not behave, or whether or not intimacy is or is not important. For Western games generally up until recently, intimacy was completely irrelevant. There are many nuances behind the latest development into this, because of the sense of truly relevant agency being able to determine your own in-game relationships truly can make for an entrancing experience.

    That being said, games where you may not choose your own relationship at least open the platform for serious story telling, which in some cases is a bit lackluster. I struggle to think of an example here, but let's say in cases where you cannot choose a relationship; then just like any book or film; the supporting structure and story must compel a meaningful relationship behind it; otherwise, it's just eye candy which may disconnect some gamers.

    Anyway, maybe I can provide a more in depth look later. I could perhaps use Mass Effect as the basis point since it does allow the freedom to enter a relationship with a given partner; or refuse entirely (not that many if any would).
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 3/3/2017, 3:11 pm

    I agree on all points.
    Relationship was the reason I loved Fire Emblem 4. Admittedly, it's simple and has no sex but you get kids. Same could be said about Mabinogi where you could go into relationship with another player and have descendants. Again no sex...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_Emblem:_Genealogy_of_the_Holy_War
    http://wiki.mabinogiworld.com/view/Family
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 3/4/2017, 5:16 am

    A bit off topic but on a side note all these reflect the differences in culture and language.
    [spoilers]
    From my worldly social and language experience western=european and oriental cultures are more sexist. Language wise more sexist, racist and cold compared to asian.

    Sexist is more toward the south than the north and is reflected in the way people curse for example. Asian as with most other languages has only the common curses about someone's parents or being born to someone. The rest varies wildly.

    Racism or the way language differentiates people is strong in the way it's used for example the distinction between me, us and you etc.. Asians don't use you often. It's rude and disrespectful and often it's used when there is hate rather than be angry at someone. Exceptions are social rank differences but it's still rude and disrespectful. I guess the younger generations exposed to english is more lax in using you. Japanese for example doesn't even differentiate between male and female subjects. You got to infer it they way it's said. Instead of you (as a group) they say everyone (mina).

    As far as cold (as in feelings) go words for "feelings" and mood are part of asian languages and describe or cover far more nuances than western ones. Western words are precise, hence, limited in scope and you need a lot more words to describe the same emotions. In a way asian languages are compressed information systems by default. I don't mean the complicated and inflexible chinese character writing system.

    I can't say these same things for the two major african languages or cultures with as much certainty as they are too underdeveloped or narrow to have enough tale-telling signs. Well, maybe they are sexist and racist, though. Interestingly, more primitive cultures and languages seem to lag all of these. I guess it's a sign of innocence. Once they do know war they certainly will develop in these directions.

    So my vision for the most advanced form of the perfect language is a combination of simple and flexible english combined with the asiatic compression system and a more advanced & more letter unique form of the alphabet. I doubt this is how we will develop as a united mankind. History shows perversions crop up all the time by the younger generations as an expression of rebelliousness. The attempts by governments (france, germany, etc.) to reign in and the rewritten dictionaries do more harm, too, as for example the words loose their historic connections making it harder to memorize, or guess their writing. Though, they were designed to ease writing. I don't see it working or maybe I'm too used to their original forms. *shrugs*
    [/spoilers]
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by spoor356 on 3/10/2017, 11:56 am

    I would have recommended that you had more robust knowledge of other languages before trying to analyze whether or not from a linguistic or anthropological perspective one group of people from . . . multiple continents are more on way or the other. For instance, Spanish also has rules for using "You" formally "Usted" and "You" informally "Tu"; however, would not be considered more or less insulting.

    For instance, I think it's odd it would be disrespectful to address anyone with an indefinite article "You". It makes language and etiquette for even standard conversation too formalized and over-emphasized upon ritual rather than social interaction.

    That being said among the "West" considering we would need to consider the South American and North continents differ wildly from Europe, and then those two western-most continents differ wildly from each other and within each other.

    Almael wrote:From my worldly social and language experience western=european and oriental cultures are more sexist. Language wise more sexist, racist and cold compared to asian.

    The above really confuses me considering at least among most English speaking westerners, Oriental is the racist amalgamation of Asian cultures since it's supposed to only refer to cuisine, not the race.

    As for racist and sexist, I would offer up to you just the structure of how men interact with women in Japan as a counter to that. It's not generally an expectation or even a social notion to perform different types of etiquette to assist women with doors or chairs, etc. You may not find the same "macho" culture as you would among "Westerners" which includes Hispanics, Americans, and Europeans; however, the definitions of masculinity are defined differently.

    Finally considering the rivalries among Asians and the overt manipulation at times of history done by Japan in response to Chinese protestations of how they write or analyze their history represents a divide that takes racist tones as well, which is far more visceral than say the intranational rivalries between Hispanic nations. For instance Someone from Mexico may look down harshly upon someone from Honduras, despite both being "Westerners".

    Almael wrote:As far as cold (as in feelings) go words for "feelings" and mood are part of asian languages and describe or cover far more nuances than western ones. Western words are precise, hence, limited in scope and you need a lot more words to describe the same emotions.



    To that I respond with the above in part. English is expressive enough and if you're looking for a "Western" language with the . . . poetry that conveys the same degree of emotional latitude or emphasis on ritual and symbolism; then I offer up Spanish and French. In part that analysis, I'd argue in part the fact that so much of far East-Asian language emphasizes varying degrees of language is too precise, bulky, formalist, and formulaic; even in Japanese.

    It's taking a while for me to unpack or analyze what you're ultimately trying to say until I got to the last paragraph. I suppose you both agree and disagree yet have . . . gaps that need more information? As for unified languages or attempts, I recommend looking up Esperanto, which I only found out about a few years ago. There have been tries, but linguistics is a really massive thing to tackle, and I wouldn't assign human character traits to wide continental swaths of language.

    Going back to sex and it's reputation in games; language or absence of it can contribute significantly. By that, a silent protagonist may speak in manners that give power to a character. Chell and Samus (pre-Other M) bore character traits of determination and bravery by virtue of a limitation of game design; they weren't given voices because they didn't need voices. The human brain simply attributed to that in part as them doing daring deeds without flinching because they were incredibly brave.

    When you give a voice role to a character, careful attention in any language must now be paid to delivery and context. I may check out some dialogue from Final Fantasy versus Mass Effect to get context, but I have may other topics on the forum to leap between.
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 3/11/2017, 12:39 pm

    Well, I don't have in depth of all language families but knowing 6 of 3 families by reading and writing that are related here is fairly covered.

    Well, there are different words and ways to refer to you which I dropped for simplicity. You should keep in mind that people who only use their language only would never realize a difference. We may assign our evaluation based on our terms and standards that may not be felt the same by the users as it's natural to them. Therefore, etiquette and formalities are relative and should evaluated from the user's perspective.

    spoor356 wrote:
    That being said among the "West" considering we would need to consider the South American and North continents differ wildly from Europe, and then those two western-most continents differ wildly from each other and within each other.
    I didn't consider N or S America because the major languages originate from Europe, hence, it would be redundant. And going into indigenious people is overkill.



    It's not just a matter of time.
    [quote="spoor356"]In part that analysis, I'd argue in part the fact that so much of farWell, I don't have in depth of all language families but knowing 6 from 3 families by reading and writing that are related here is fairly covered.

    Well, there are different words and ways to refer to you which I dropped for simplicity. You should keep in mind that people who only use their language only would never realize a difference. We may assign our evaluation based on our terms and standards that may not be felt the same by the users as it's natural to them. Therefore, etiquette and formalities are relative and should evaluated from the user's perspective.

    spoor356 wrote:
    That being said among the "West" considering we would need to consider the South American and North continents differ wildly from Europe, and then those two western-most continents differ wildly from each other and within each other.
    I didn't consider N. or S. America because the major languages originate from Europe, hence, it would be redundant. And going into indigenous people is overkill.

    I talked from a language point of view which likely has influence in social activities or culture, hence, finds it's way into media. It doesn't mean people act according to the word. It means it's inherently there which makes people unconsciously leaning more toward it.

    I've always said racism is everywhere. It's not just a matter of time or history. On all levels of society (siblings, spouses, community, nations) there is a relationship between the familiar and unfamiliar. The more you know people the more likely you will get into fights or conflicts. Frankly, this is natural and can also be observed among animals and insects alike e.g. lie how locust turn into an all swallowing swarm.

    Yes, world wide man generally have executive power while woman are left with the family & household. But in asia woman do get more respect especially when they are somehow related. It's not just that there is a difference in masculine definition. In Japan men can be adopted into their wives' family in order to continue the family line. The man may just be the family head in name only. Despite this Japan has stricter criteria for citizenship. Even if you are born to one Japanese parent you still must be born on Japanese soil to get citizenship.

    spoor356 wrote:In part that analysis, I'd argue in part the fact that so much of far East-Asian language emphasizes varying degrees of language is too precise, bulky, formalist, and formulaic; even in Japanese.
    Perhaps, you don't have the grasp on the differences but those variation make a big difference, hence, they cover more ground than western ones. There is a reason why proverbs can be expressed in single or two or three character words. Japan like to play these kind of word/writing games. You can hardly do that with any western languages. English & latin are probably the only one that can without being weird.
    Formality isn't a word it's just an expression of relationship which add quality and extra information. Just a simple sentence can tell you the relationship between two people and at least the interest of one side.


    spoor356 wrote:
    language or absence of it can contribute significantly.
    That's called art, imagination or inspiration if you will.
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    Almael
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 3/21/2017, 6:16 pm

    Another borderline game:
    School Girls/Zombie Hunter (2017)

    And no this has nothing to do with the "Zombie Hunter" manga from a decade ago.
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    Re: Sex in games

    Post by Almael on 4/19/2017, 5:33 pm


    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/04/princeton-scholars-figure-out-why-your-ai-is-racist/
    So there is proof to what I have said about language and human behavior...after finding out how AI gets racist and sexist after having socialized with humans.
    http://science.sciencemag.org/content/356/6334/183.full

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