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    AlexT
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by AlexT on 2/21/2014, 8:44 am

    Today the president declared that he initiates elections and approved the return back to constitution of 2004 year ( The reason people demanded old constitution is because right now all 3 branches of power is under control of the president).
    So it's more or less victory  cheers Although I don't rush any conclusions - to win a war is easier than dealing with consequences.

    Still, we almost reached point of no return when army started to move toward capital. Commander-in-chief did resign as he refused to use army against people, so a new one was appointed who probably wouldn't hesitate too much. Good thing it didn't come to that. Rumors say it's because part of military and other militarized forces declared that they will oppose any use of lethal force against civilians.
    The only thing that worried and keeps worrying me - I always believed that one can't build state of law using unlawful methods. To be honest - finding the thin line between law and justice is the thought that haunt me like a ghost for many years. Was it better if everyone just stayed peaceful, does militia actions justify using Molotov cocktails etc.? The actions of the people was against the law, but law in it's current form was agains the people - it's what most say. Some disagree - they believe that law is above all and if you don't like something - just vote. Others say the way we headed - there wouldn't be any elections...
    The only thing I firmly agree with - if something happening on large scale the people in power should take responsibility and resign.
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    mitsuki lover
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by mitsuki lover on 2/21/2014, 2:37 pm

    I'm glad to hear that it looks like things are looking like they are getting more positive in Ukraine Alex.

    Now if only there's some actual follow through by the government with all their promises.

    The situation in Venezuela in the meantime seems to have gotten a lot worse.I read at Reason Magazine Online today where the Venezuelan government is blocking all media access including the
    internet.
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    Almael
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 2/22/2014, 9:11 am

    All sounds good but I'm cautious about what's going to happen next in the Ukraine.
    Well, it's been a while since I read on the basics of philosophy leading to law & politics. So..."nobody is above the law" this fundamental statement means that nobody goes unpunished. It doesn't mean you cannot go against the law but you have to take responsibility according to the law. Laws are made as an "agreement" of individuals to form a society and live together under these agreements.
    In other words the law is there to serve and control the living together of people.
    If one side breaks the agreement it's legitimate to do something. So I think you go with peaceful protest until someone goes around shooting is perfectly fine. Killing people is just wrong, and you got the right to self defense. Therefore, the only thing that's wrong is violence. Hope, that helps even if it's in part my opinion, too.

    --------------
    Venezuela might be a more dangerous place than the Ukraine. Think about Mexico nowaday with everyone having guns. It all feels like anarchy to me.
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 2/23/2014, 1:39 pm

    Everybody is surprised by how things got resolved so fast in the Ukraine. If it keeps ending well I bet it will go down in history as the Ukraine wonder or miracle or so.
    It's admirable nonetheless.

    The winter olympics have ended with russia ranked #1. Putin must be very happy all his effort worked out. Well, with empty towns and all under control...

    I read some new bits about the bomber project
    http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140220/DEFREG02/302200043/USAF-Defends-Need-New-Long-Range-Bomber?odyssey=mod_sectionstories
    Noticed anything?


    • In 2011 it's said to be ready in 2018 and 180 ship for $550 each would be bought: 7 years
    • Now it's mid 2020's = 2025 and 80-100 ships for $550 each: 14 years

    The development cost have quietly doubled, hence, the numbers of acquisition got halved. Yet, somehow the price is the same? I will bet it will delay into 2032 and still cost the same but for 60 ships.
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    mitsuki lover
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by mitsuki lover on 2/24/2014, 3:31 pm

    I was reading in the paper yesterday where Ukrainians were able to actually go and visit the former President's estate.One of them commented that they had seen a documentary on the British Royal Family and even they didn't live in such opulence.
    Why is it that when Leaders declare they're representing the People they always end up living lifestyles that normal people would never be able
    to attain?

    In contrast to that the new Jesus movie:Son of God,is coming out on Friday and a group from our church is going to go watch it next Sunday afternoon. cheers 
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    Almael
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 2/25/2014, 9:57 am

    Yeah, well, cause they are liars. You got to have the right mindset and ruthless to get into such positions. On the other side better people don't become leaders easily. They just don't have the "drive." hmm, social evolution... there's the empiric opinion only every 600 years a great man appears who changes the world. In another 400+- years you can prove me wrong.  Smile 

    Now, it's revealed the prez wanted to get "rid" of all the demonstrators by force. Good thing it didn't happen. The man is too power hungry and despotic.


    Geez, just because the secretary of Dod announces the killing of the A-10 warthog some people are outrage cause it got this super cannon. Well, it is well documented in a certain famous aeronautic design bible the cannon can't harm a tank from the front no matter how many times it's tested. It only good from the top and back. Besides this has been planned years ago nothing news. Maybe the schedule got changed a bit, though.

    Anyway, there's some talk about a certain pair of Jehovah's Witnesses going "astray" after decades of devotion. Well, I don't see a problem with them as much as say scientology.
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    mitsuki lover
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by mitsuki lover on 2/26/2014, 2:34 pm

    Didn't hear about the JWs wonder what doctrine they 'strayed' on.Can't be the timing of the
    Second Coming since that keeps changing all the time.

    I read in the paper today where a couple in north-central California stumbled over some cans containing
    nearly 1,497 coins from between 1849 to 1894.their dog uncovered them while they were on a walk on their property.The coins were all in mint condition too.
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    AlexT
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by AlexT on 2/27/2014, 8:17 am

    Looks like it may only be a new beginning.
    I'm unhappy about many things related to this "revolution", such as "double standards", like when police/army/security service "can't" use weapons against people who are trying to break into millitary/goverment buildings, yet when government changes they quickly allow use of lethal force against people should they try to break into these same buildings.
    Non-condemning of armed radicals and not putting law above all else is the biggest mistake which is  not easily erased.
    So basically now we have the same situation in Crimea  now, but this time it's opposite - people do not acknowledge NEW government and demand referendum as to if Crimea  should stay in Ukraine or join Russia.
    Now Russia is playing very risky game and we actually discuss the possibility of invasion. No kidding. The Kadyrov (Chechen leader) already stated that Chechen people in Ukraine do not feel safe and they are ready to protect them...
    I'm sure you'll see tons of news on this topic, but to me - this is possibly the worst moment of it all. I just hoped i'll never see it happening here.
    Part of the problem is that until fully legit elections -no one is completely sure if  government is 100% legal so army and police (which is very demoralized atm) are unlikely to be zealous about protecting anything. Most just resign or stay away. There's a problem even with protection of priority\strategic military and infrastructure installations. The protection of those could be carried by "3rd" party forces though, but a legal contract with legit government is needed and it's all a big "if". (It may be interesting for you to check as part of our "military discussion": http://omega-consulting.com.ua/  Almael Rolling Eyes )


    Last edited by AlexT on 2/27/2014, 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Almael
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 2/27/2014, 9:05 am

    People stash their money in the ground is quite common in all parts of the world from ancient times. And I guess people forget about it or they died or get killed by relatives/criminals who aimed at it... But this find was quite large for the time it was from. It should be possible to find out whose it is but...finders find *shrugs*

    -----------------
    Well, I'm afraid I'm not that well informed, Alex
    Yeah, those changes are a bad sign. It means perhaps the "other" bad guys want to establish themselves. I'm thinking of the aristocrats you got there. Your people should relay to prevent those aristocrats from corrupting the new government. I understand it's a financial problem that's important right now. Imho best solution is to work together and get support from the EU financially. It won't be great at first but you cannot get around it. And with others you are sure to get the worse deal.

    The radicals have their role. It's important to prevent them from becoming a "staying power". Punishment and all can come later. It's very dangerous to push too much against them right now imho and you still may need them.
    As for Crimea, you may be right about the invasion even though everybody here says it's a moot point because it's inevitable. Well, I think it might be a good idea to fall back to the idea as in the separation of Cyprus island for both sides. I'm sure Putin won't like it but he may agree to it. He's not that an unreasonable man. Just don't make that too obvious while you are negotiating. Be s Spoor. Wink

    Well, legality depends on the constitution and how it defines the cases where the president has been temporarily replaced. In theory, the president of parliament is legit to do business as the parliament is supposed to be the one providing the money for governmental budget.

    Contractors are in trouble either way. If taking the wrong side the winning side may
    treat them badly later. It's possible to make some deal with the government that may be advantageous later on e.g. certain license rights or other business related etc. of course including some monetary return (maybe a bit less). Contractor could push for certain business laws later, too e.g. like head hunting or certain equipment or number of vehicle or whatever.
    There is also the possibility to contract with the aristocrats, might be bad for the country, though.

    I will look at the site and come back later.
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by mitsuki lover on 2/28/2014, 2:56 pm

    Russia seems to have a bit of a problem with getting their nose into the
    internal affairs of their former republics.As you recall they didn't hesitate
    to intervene when part of Georgia decided to secede.

    I think what really they are after is the Black Sea ports which they lost after Ukraine gained it's independence.I think they would prefer to use them without having go through the legal niciety of paying rent to the
    Ukrainian government.

    In another news story,there is going to be an online auction of a
    copy of Mein Kampf personally signed by Adolf Hilter.It is suspected to raise something like $200,000.Nazi memorabilia is illegal to sell or buy still in parts of Europe but the article I read says there are a lot of different types of collectors for Hitleriana and Nazi memorabilia from Skin-Heads to Jews.
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    Almael
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 3/2/2014, 2:55 pm

    Dreams of old grandeur...
    Rent aside all the facilities and other assets costs a lot. It would cost even more to build a new port else where.
    In any case there's nothing NATO can do but talk and make sanctions. It's doubtful there will be a war breaking out but likely "unnamed" men will cause some fire fights.
    Then again having all the elites around is a bit safer than some nervous or trigger happy Joe.

    ------
    If it's real. There was once someone creating some fake hitler diaries (using new books to write on...) Well I think it's fine as long as people can access it for study or so. Spreading it everywhere is just bad. Then again there's more than enough stuff online.
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    mitsuki lover
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by mitsuki lover on 3/3/2014, 3:25 pm

    Yes,I do remember the so called Hitler Diaries it was one of the biggest hoaxes of the late
    twentieth century.

    AFAIG didn't get to see Son of God after all.Turned out that the weather decided to change from what it was to snow and wind,so decided to stay home instead.
    Well I don't know how good it was,all I know is that it was 2 hours and 20 minutes.

    Came home from the library and had to finish shoveling the snow and more came falling down now.
     Evil or Very Mad 
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    AlexT
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by AlexT on 3/3/2014, 4:03 pm

    Oh well...I guess this is it. If it was a book - i would probably laugh at it for being too unrealistic thus i still can't believe it's happening.

    Too bad it happened during such bad a times but probably couldn't be any other way.
    What I'm about to tell you is probably surprising, but thing is - currently i don't really support "maidan" and change of power. It DID happen with help of radicals and de-facto terrorists/criminals since people who throw Molotov cocktails or use hunting rifles against police are such. And there ARE many nazi related organizations among them. There is 0 casualities related to those among those 100 who died. The riot police DID NOT have lethal weapons nor did they use it agains people and they didn't do anything that isn't permitted by the law and at least deserved a fair investigations. Even those who did (no one knows who) was still legal.I despise methods of those who came instead of previous regime and right now wish it would'nt happen, not until after elections at least.
    Current government is bunch of populists who actually got more power concentrated in their hands than old president ever dreamed of and first thing they did is cancelling multi-language and other "international" laws here making people of the east angry. Also, position of Europe and US press and politicians was very "one-sided".Because of all of that we got our society split, police demoralized and angry and then comes Putin...Who isn't any better of course, but i guess he tired of seing same stuff happeping in various countries with the same scenario so he made his move.
    Wish us luck
    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/73335000/gif/_73335000_ukraine_russia_armed_forces_comp2_464in.gif
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    Almael
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 3/4/2014, 8:12 am

    Well, most revolutions bring the radicals to the front. It's not something that can be avoided. The important thing is to be numerous and armed well enough to not let them grab all the power. Of course this very unrealistic but it's also the only sure way aside from election. Whether election goes well or not is another problem.
    Seriously, there's nothing anybody else can do for you but threatening with sanctions. Any other moves would result in (world) war. As to giving money, the problem is obviously nobody knows if you can keep your end of the bargain.
    Putin is a fox you never know what he really intends to do. He may not be that evil a guy but you can't let him do anything he wants either. *shrugs* The worse is this crisis will serve to encourage for other future world crisis by even worse people. Let's hope this is the only major crisis you got and that all future ones in your region are minor...counter to my worse prediction.

    Good luck mate, but I won't wish for another sun in the sky.
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by AlexT on 3/4/2014, 8:40 am

    Loks like it's calming down.
    Personally i think it's simply because they did not encounter any "fascists, radicals etc." and didn't see any treat to russian people of Crimea and met no agression from UA millitary.
    Since russian forces seem to be retreating atm. i'm starting to believe it's a good thing after all - this show of power should work as a sign for radicals should they continue their BS. My opinion of Putin actually improved after his press-conference.
    What we need now is non-populist, professional goverment to unite country around economy and not this old national/cultural crap we're all tired of. And above else - law.
    I just fear that new goverment won't work miracles and soon people will remember how easy it is to overthrow it and it will all start over in circles.
    As side not i must say i'm proud of our regular millitary. They are obsolete, not well equiped or armed, not paid well, yet they all refused to surrender or join opposing forces even when offered tons of money. Their main "weapon" was to stay calm and not to be provoked. Even a single shot could trigger the war, but they silently stood their ground. 07
    Maybe it's a good idea to review those old agreements - since russia can break some, we can break just one and that's our non-nuclear status. And unlike Iran and others it's easy for us since we had it all already. Tons of it...
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    Re: Random Thought

    Post by Almael on 3/5/2014, 8:26 am

    Good to hear. Yeah, you might be right about the radicals.
    It's possible but I doubt your people would end up doing one revolt after another that often as say Thailand. Seeing as how many times the italians changed governments...there's that "normality", too.

    As to government, in the states there's also this municipal system called
    "council-manager government"
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayor%E2%80%93council_government
    It's mostly used for cities, but I kind of like the principle. People elect the mayor who rules and hires managers who do the real administrative and executive work. The downside is that the politicians don't do the real work and yet over-rule those who do.

    Not sure if you can break "some" agreements. It all depends on how they were signed and what's said in it.
    Having those nukes will be costly in the long term and keeping them safe is another problem. Being close to those southern lands isn't assuring. And if you do it, expect Putin to do something about it perhaps worse than now. Remember he's the spy boss super connections guy here. Despite everything he's the all over-seeing absolute head-of-state manager Emperor, here. In a different time, in a different world he might be a hero king...but those times are gone.
    The Ukraine is a buffer for Russia, that's the important point. Putin only does not want it to fall to NATO. So I think allowing Crimea to keep serving as a rented base is an acceptable trade-off. Being "neutral" helps trade as long as your people don't support isolism. Well, you got tonnes of laws to pass and make things work. Uou better take care of civil and economic laws first. Civil order and trade needs to be restored as quickly as possible. Public services need to be run properly right now. It will take some time for the rest but the basics need care first.

    -------

    http://kinofthestars.heavenforum.org/viewtopic.forum?t=211

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