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    Lost Stories Character arts and details.

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    Almael
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    Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/25/2009, 5:05 pm

    Since we have some eager fans wanting to know and draw 'Lost Story' characters, this will be the place to post the results. Wink

    I wanted to draw my own avartar version from AN but I don't have the right tools and time to do them so I will post rather put together picts.



    Imperial Admiral Almael. Laughing
    Mirror, who's the real one? Razz
    *scratch* Should I post some kind of biography?


    Last edited by Almael on 5/25/2009, 8:35 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : thumbnail, finally works :))
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by JGZinv on 5/25/2009, 5:42 pm

    Whatever you like... but I'd suggest using photobucket or imgshack's thumbnail feature...
    Or a link...


    Looks good though, better than I could do.


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    Almael
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/25/2009, 8:34 pm

    Well, I had to change and redo parts, but the top hair still didn't match. Sad
    Anyway, I'm surprised myself how combining the avartar and the uniform turned to this guy...looks so meany... *sigh*
    Next post will be Apos and Soda from "Lost Story - demons" and someone from "Lost Story - infinity sphere" *scratch*

    Hmm,...what kind of assitant should I have?
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 5/26/2009, 5:25 am

    Nice Smile Looks very anime style - very believeable! It's a good addition since i mostly focused on more realistic style, mainly because nobody teaching me how to draw anime and it's more tricky than it may seem Wink

    One thing though - he look a bit too young i'd say. I always imagined good admiral as a bit more mature and experienced, but i guess it's just stereotype of any admiral.
    I'll try to make slightrly different (realistic) pic of Almael after i finish "researching" Spoor into realistic form...
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/26/2009, 6:29 am

    AlexT wrote:Nice Smile Looks very anime style - very believeable! It's a good addition since i mostly focused on more realistic style, mainly because nobody teaching me how to draw anime and it's more tricky than it may seem Wink
    Ya. Actually, I only have problems drawing with the eyes and noses. Faces, hair, cloths aren't a problem. But without a board it's a pain to draw everything in vectors, and scan are no good ....


    One thing though - he look a bit too young i'd say. I always imagined good admiral as a bit more mature and experienced, but i guess it's just stereotype of any admiral.
    Abh always look young. The most they look is like around 40/50. I think his age is anywhere between 30-50.


    I'll try to make slightrly different (realistic) pic of Almael after i finish "researching" Spoor into realistic form...
    You want to try Spoor? I recommend to go to japanese idol sites.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 5/26/2009, 8:08 am

    Almael wrote:Ya. Actually, I only have problems drawing with the eyes and noses. Faces, hair, cloths aren't a problem. But without a board it's a pain to draw everything in vectors, and scan are no good ....
    But usualy pencil+paper+eraser is the easiest and most flexible thing to use.
    If u're into vector stuff then it should be even easier.stuff like Adobe Illustrator is perfect for anime stuff. After all it's how half of the anime is made - easy to change solid shapes, shadows etc.I actualy thinking to use it for anything non-realistic in future.
    Here - useful tutorial useful for any vector program
    http://takumy.deviantart.com/art/A-Illustrator-Tutorial-p-1-25539896
    http://takumy.deviantart.com/art/A-Illustrator-Tutorial-p-2-25567958
    http://takumy.deviantart.com/art/A-Illustrator-Tutorial-p-3-25851722

    Abh always look young. The most they look is like around 40/50. I think his age is anywhere between 30-50.
    Then i was pretty close with my pic. I wanted the look of relatively young man that look older cuz of his experience and burden of responsibility Very Happy

    You want to try Spoor? I recommend to go to japanese idol sites.
    Actualy made some progress. Among 7 sketches of her face i did 1 looks pretty good. I used simple de-aproximation. Just slowly build anime shape into realistic by adjusting proportions and sized but leaving shapes and ideas the same. I'll post it tonight, it's very simple atm though
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/26/2009, 4:10 pm

    AlexT wrote:
    But usualy pencil+paper+eraser is the easiest and most flexible thing to use.
    I know, but if I would need to rework it after a scan...so it's a bit more convenient to do it electronically.


    If u're into vector stuff then it should be even
    easier.stuff like Adobe Illustrator is perfect for anime stuff. After
    all it's how half of the anime is made - easy to change solid shapes,
    shadows etc.I actualy thinking to use it for anything non-realistic in
    future.
    I'm not but it's the best solution. I've used coral draw and adobe's,
    my time spent doing these is still short. I like Corel better but it's
    layer management is too much work.
    Adobe's has great layers but the vector tools are troubling. I have
    trouble understanding how the groupings works as well as getting the
    boolean operation of basic forms.
    They just don't seem to work as you would expect. These are the most
    operation i'm doing in 3D aside from actual point editing, the
    difference is just weird. Also coloring sometimes is not as wanted,
    especially the special edge tool....anyway the links are useful, thanks.


    Actualy made some progress. Among 7 sketches of her face i
    did 1 looks pretty good. I used simple de-aproximation. Just slowly
    build anime shape into realistic by adjusting proportions and sized but
    leaving shapes and ideas the same. I'll post it tonight, it's very
    simple atm though
    *very curious*
    Good approach.

    updates. Wink

    Admiral Apos from Lost Story - Demons


    Kilocommander Soda from Lost Story - Demons


    "Osman" from Lost Story - Darkness


    from Lost Story - Infinity Sphere
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by mitsuki lover on 5/27/2009, 2:02 pm

    The second to last pic looks like you were trying for a Arabian Nights look to it.Actually I could imagine Bill Mumy playing that character.
    Laughing
    And as far as age goes...there are plenty of historical precendents for teens leading armies
    *Koff *Joan of Arc*Koff*
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/27/2009, 2:43 pm

    mitsuki lover wrote:The second to last pic looks like you were trying for a Arabian Nights look to it.Actually I could imagine Bill Mumy playing that character.
    Laughing
    And as far as age goes...there are plenty of historical precendents for teens leading armies
    *Koff *Joan of Arc*Koff*
    lol yes, that's right since he is active in the Hania Federation. The only picture where I didn't need to do anything about the hair but had to waste it, while the others needed creations...
    *tsk* reversed world

    Now, that you mentioned it, i will post some interesting links soon about some people.

    Next I will post the father of the girl above, I just need to design some special new clothe.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 5/28/2009, 6:02 am

    Looks good, almost as i imagined these.
    In future add a little comment on how u made particular pic and what parts\references u used\from where please - should be useful.

    Sketch of Spoor is posted in my topic. While she's very technical and coarse at the moment - i'm quite happy with it and feel like i'm getting close to complete understanding of how to convert anime characters into realistic ones.I think i'll try Lafiel and Jinto, let's see how they'll turn out...

    Too bad i haven't made much progress with my color illustration - went over my head with that one, i'm not ready for portrait techniques in color yet...the only thing i can do well in color is Roil, mostly because i feel like i know every curve of it by now Smile
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/28/2009, 3:56 pm

    AlexT wrote:Looks good, almost as i imagined these.
    In future add a little comment on how u made particular pic and what parts\references u used\from where please - should be useful.
    Thanks. Although, I hope almost meant better. Laughing

    Alright, a short description on how generally these have been done.
    The most part have been done with MS paint, some parts have been done with Adobe's (usually for turning or using magic wand)
    I used various manga scans and the Seikai manga.
    First get the right facial art/panel to be used.
    In case of the Abh, it's more convenient to look for eye style to be natural or round pupils. Open forehead would also be convenient for the Alpha tiaras.
    1. depending on need you will have to change the lighting(gamma) to get the right brightness
    or even manipulate the color components (RGB)
    2. now you need to clean up the picture, the part that needs to be transparent later
    3. resize the picture to be combined with other pictures.
    4. depending on your needs you may need to create masks. So you can manipulate certain parts differently
    (photoshop's Magic wand tool does work but not always as wanted)
    5. you may need to fix some odd pixels left from the masking
    or make overlapping adjustments
    Transparency can have bad pixels when you have transparent pixel where you don't want them.
    In this case use some background color to fill these first. (use tranparency trick) Usually I use a darker white, but sometimes you might want something else for later.

    examples
    Imperial Admiral Almael:
    The head is from another short story(there was no panel that fit) of the same artist from which I took my avatar
    The head was incomplete, so I used 4 parabelums(curve tool) to complete the top then filled it with the approximate color
    The head was also in a different angle and was wider, so I made partial scaling in order to avoid changing the proportions too much
    To get the lighter hair style I created a negative. This does not always fit. Sometimes you might just need to fix the lighting, then remove the dark color.
    Then I created a mask by simply 'close-off' the areas (and fill them with different color) and save the picture as a B&W picture.
    Using transparency you grab the parts you want with the mask and combine them to a new picture.
    As the hair is all over the forehead the Alpha needed to be concealed for the most part. So I made the free parts between the hair transparent and put the Alpha underneath.
    Since I wanted the Alpha to have a blue crytal, I created the alpha with it beforehand using mask and color manipulation (fix/remove red&yellow).
    Then I cut the wings appropriately and put them right in place (exactly overlapping the Alpha underneath) where they would emerge from the hair. Some pixel may need fixing, but that's all.

    The uniforms have been taken and reworked in a similar fashion. I changed parts to make them look like the anime version.
    Filled, extended or recreate parts.

    Admiral Apos:
    I took Elwood, Roy's father from Fire Emblem.
    I did a facelift, complete the hairs from various panels.

    Soda:
    I took this from some side character. Merged it with the compressed top hairs from another character, mirrored etc.

    Osman:
    This one is also from some side character. I resized the body from...*searches*...Kago no Naka
    eliminated the bishi Razz lol and put our talented agent in place.

    the girl:
    Another hairy job. lol Partial merged with another character, changed, mirrored, replaced color etc.
    I completed her uniform with her own parts. Her arm/hand was recreated using same parts as well as other panel parts.
    The only picture were I didn't scale any part except the computer crystal. Wink
    I originally wanted to create a uniform out of her clothing, but the basic colors were too bad. No tricks could correct the color problem.

    Her father:
    I have his face but I don't know the name of the story: the reincarnation of a (greek) goddess who turned to a tree(?name) when she was shocked(?reason) by Apollo.
    I originally wanted Nagi, but he has no eyes and the only useable panel needed lots of reworking. (I can't believe how many main characters don't have front views...)
    So I'm starting to create the body from scratch with my own design.


    I think i'll try Lafiel and Jinto, let's see how they'll turn out...

    Too bad i haven't made much progress with my color illustration -

    ...the only thing i can do well in color is Roil, mostly because i feel like i know every curve of it by now Smile
    Hohoho.
    Well, when you do color I'm afraid you will be less pleased. Usually, some parts will look off due to the contrast. Details and color range will also become inprotant.
    lol You are already married Captain!
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 5/29/2009, 8:49 am

    Don't worry about color - i have no problems with it and actualy spend more time on it than on my B&W skills. Wink
    As for 3D - i'm yet to lay my hands on brand new Autodesk mudbox - finaly real and powerful 3D sculpting program (plus Zbrush of course but it's different). I just don't know what to do with it. I can sculpt characters in 3D, but it's slower process, more boring and can only pay off if i'm going to do animation. 3D is lifesaver when u want to make space ships and other technical stuff and render it via toonshader for anime style animation or pics - all studios do it nowadays. Macross Frotntier is good example, i actualy quite impressed by such simple technique - take 3D models, hand paint textures on them to preserve anime style and you get great anime feel + good motion.
    Btw, mudbox allow painting of textures right on top of models now, only BodyPaint from Cinema4D could before...

    Question to public- so anyone actualy read "Darkness" or other Almael stories? We need your opinions here people!
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 5/30/2009, 7:09 am

    I prefer low poly count so sculpting and nurbs aren't thing I usually use. I do raw precise stuff that why my models always look good and accurate despite low poly. Hence I could render whole fleets with ease, but I don't waste computer time on this.
    Macross Frontier is by far not the first anime with 3D, actually I don't see much difference to the very first ones, which had been done around 1995.

    I'm done with the father but not complete body. I can't decide to finish the whole big picture (too big).
    Next going to do Ma'am President of The People's Sovereign Stellar Union from 'Darkness'. The trouble is to decide between the description and art of the ambassador and the description of the nation by Morioka. Both seem not to fit general view direction. I think I will go with a mix for face and clothing.

    My stories seem to have more men than women, which means there is too much action.
    Anybody want to change the mix or have more girls? Of course can't have all girls.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by JGZinv on 6/1/2009, 11:17 am

    ::: Thread has been split :::

    Almael -

    -----------------

    The father of the Abh girl. from 'Infinity Sphere'
    Apollo mixed with someone from Valkyria.
    The clothe was missproportioned on the right, so I cut and moved 1/3 closer to the middle.
    Redesigned half the cloth, I tried to combine Startrek shoulder design with Abh shoulder design. I couldn't add invisible pockets so I added thick lines for the pockets.
    This is supposed to be a civilian work clothing. There was supposed to be an ID tag, which was removed because this guy does not like to wear it. Colors are grey with blue lines on white.


    Madam President from 'Darkness'
    Luckyly I could take over it all, just redit her facial expression only.


    UMK intel officer from 'Darkness'
    Some gangster mixed with apropriar soldier.


    UMK secret base commander from 'Darkness'


    AlexT -

    Looks nice - they all look natural as B&W pics, manga style. I
    wonder if i should stop bothering with color and just draw B&W
    stuff for now...

    Almael, you asked previously about gender of characters - i think mix is always good, but the best approach is to pick one depending on situation -some roles are better for women and some are better for males.


    Almael -

    Actually, I think many roles can be played by both genders. The problem is gender specific behavior. I can't say I'm good at writting with both. -_-;


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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 7/15/2009, 1:13 pm

    Almael, I resumed drawing various stuff from story but there are few things i'd hope you'll help me with:

    Among crew of Tukaroil - only hecto-commander wear officer uniform? All the other members should wear regular suits? For some reason on seikai scrrenshots i noticed they vary in color or is it just compression/light and if not - is it personal preference of colors for each member or is it part of millitary hierarchy as well?

    I though about sketching abh laser rifle - i think the ones that look like XM-8 are not very good here (i used it as reference before). Something with "double" barrel where upper part is actual barrel and the one below is battery would be better. But among existing weaponry there are few rifles that look like this except for ones with grenade launcher attached so if you seen any assault rifle which you could recommend as reference let me know.

    Antimatter fuel - the only thing i think i know about it is that if it escapes (whatever is holding those particles, magnetic fields probably?) - lot of energy will be released upon contact with equal amount of "regular" matter. That's why i asked what will happen if roil is to crash on planet surface - isn't there high probability of antimatter escaping and huge explosion happening? Even 1 kg of antimatter that come into contact with matter should produce 40 megatonn explosion or larger...which is bad news.
    I need to know how destructive such crash would be, the safe distance and any additional (destructive) effects "the fall of roil" may cause.

    Roil manuvering engines - are they powerful enough to controll Roil's "controlled fall" in atmosphere?
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 7/15/2009, 4:51 pm

    AlexT wrote:
    Among crew of Tukaroil - only hecto-commander wear officer uniform?
    The officer uniform is rather a "command uniform" for people having a command or who are flag or staff officer, I think. In anycase people can wear from Deca-commander rank on.
    The only exception we can see was Kufadis. Maybe it also depends on the captain's/Spoor laxiness of onboard uniform code. Similar to Deana Troi on the Enterprise in the first TNG season.

    AlexT wrote:
    All the other members should wear regular suits? For some reason on seikai scrrenshots i noticed they vary in color or is it just compression/light and if not - is it personal preference of colors for each member or is it part of millitary hierarchy as well?
    Color code (line & rank insignia) is used for Star Force departments and also there are other work clothes for the engineer department.
    Refer to the library at http://www.angelfire.com/anime6/seikai/ for more details (under ranks and uniforms)
    Aside from light source shading differences there are color hue differences between COTS, BOTS I&II and BOTS III. See in the costplay thread for reference.
    In Cots it's black and grey.
    In BOTS I&II it's dark blue and blueish grey.
    In BOTS III it's black with a bit blue and dark grey.

    AlexT wrote:
    I though about sketching abh laser rifle - i think the ones that look like XM-8 are not very good here (i used it as reference before). Something with "double" barrel where upper part is actual barrel and the one below is battery would be better. But among existing weaponry there are few rifles that look like this except for ones with grenade launcher attached so if you seen any assault rifle which you could recommend as reference let me know.
    Well, I will look, but IMHO design is dependent on what you want and how you want to arrange things. The general design isn't something fixed by any physical laws like cars are.
    I had been some ideas on this for quite a while...

    AlexT wrote:
    Antimatter fuel - the only thing i think i know about it is that if it escapes (whatever is holding those particles, magnetic fields probably?) - lot of energy will be released upon contact with equal amount of "regular" matter. That's why i asked what will happen if roil is to crash on planet surface - isn't there high probability of antimatter escaping and huge explosion happening?
    Star Force regulation dictates that you are not allow to take antimatter with you onto a planet, that's why Lafiel disassembled their boat in COTS before entering the atmosphere.
    So the crew will try to eject the fuel first before entering. If it doesn't work and their course cannot be change then there is the option of selfdestruction. Of course this depends on the ethics of the crew.
    If they don't do anything then yes, once the tanks are crushed, and the magnetic traps fail, then the antimatter (ice/gas) will escape and react with normal matter.

    AlexT wrote:
    Even 1 kg of antimatter that come into contact with matter should produce 40 megatonn explosion or larger...which is bad news.
    I need to know how destructive such crash would be, the safe distance and any additional (destructive) effects "the fall of roil" may cause.
    1 kg antimatter + 1kg matter = 74 Mts
    Please note that not all antimatter will be consume in the initial explosion. The first layer of the AM gas cloud reacts first and blow/disperse the ship into fragments into the ground&atmoshpere.
    The rest antimatter cloud will expand (after implosion) and react on the way out, which will look like an expanding sphere of plasma fire. So you see the ship blow up into pieces while a fast expanding sphere of fire will cover and virtually vaporizes everything.
    I don't remember the numbers now but if 50% of the energy (1 kg AM) is kinetic or heat you won't be save within 25+ km. In 100 km distance you should protect your eyes.
    The shockwave will expand at the speed of sound in that specific atmosphere. The sphere of fire will be faster and depending on how much AM there are...:
    If say 1 g AM in one direction and probability to hit an atome is 20 cm...
    sqrt3(Avogadro) * 0.2m = 84446889 * 0.2 m = 16889377 m = 16889 km.

    AlexT wrote:
    Roil manuvering engines - are they powerful enough to controll Roil's "controlled fall" in atmosphere?
    Yes, I don't remember the number now, though. It can do at least about 9+ g in space, I need to calc the frontal area to determine the air mass.....for resistance....then v = sqrt(airflux stream) at which they have some influence.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 7/16/2009, 5:53 am

    So what about our dear Front Flyer? Does she wear regular uniform or "command", or she switch it if H.C. is present or not? Smile

    What about shoes - is there some freedom of choice here? Like spiked shoes Wad wear - would it be serious problem outside of the ship or is it only depends on judgement of her CO in this case?

    Ok, getting rid of antimatter fuel should work. As for crash w/o antimatter it should not produce too much destruction so safe radius should just couple of km..


    Last edited by AlexT on 7/16/2009, 6:15 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 7/16/2009, 6:15 am

    AlexT wrote:So what about our dear Front Flyer? Does she wear regular uniform or "command", or she switch it depending on if H.C. is present? Smile

    The regular (tight) uniform. Wink

    Edit:
    Now to the guns...

    From Applesseed and Ghost in the Shell.
    The Appleseed gun happens to date a bit earlier before the Calico (below) was produced.
    Notice the Orc suit? It was reused in Final Fantasy movie (which one critic said it was from a game which in turn was a decade younger Laughing ) Note that Crysis also developed a similar design, not to mention the alien design&take similar to Final Fantasy movie.


    Calico gun

    As you see the magazine is on top. This has physical advantage due to gravity. For a battery this isn't necessary, but it would be better for mechanical reason when swinging the weapon around.


    My second favorite personal weapon Wink
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 7/16/2009, 4:49 pm

    That saburo gun looks good as for SMG - very compact. Problem of every SMG is where to place clip - it's often 1/2 of whole gun itself.
    Look like P90 a bit which is very nice


    But these are SMGs - i think laser assault rifle should be different. It's not much of a theory, but i think laser SMGs can exist too since you want em for same reason they exist today - since battery is limited they'd have smaller "caliber" but higher rate of fire for quick inside-ship situations while laser assault rifles are more powerful and long range weapons with higher power but slower rate of fire. So their design should be closer to classic assault rifles. As for laser handguns - i think it's nice idea for them to be able to maintain "continuous" beam (up to half second, maybe more) since they're single-action.
    I like some weapons from Killzone 2:

    This one is closest to how i imagine it:

    And of course old classics, my favorite actualy Smile

    Rear part is similar to P90 and i like it - Abhs would love something ergonomic:
    http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/6161/1600gun013flat0tk.jpg

    Finaly...as for Calico...are you serious? It look like bad laser gun from ancient sci-fi movie and it's no good in use. It's not controlled very well, not reliable due to complex clip, hard to repair and replace clips...weapon of crazy bank robbers and terrorists Evil or Very Mad And it's expensive - you can buy M4 for almost as much. More important - that clip design is no good...because you can't open bottle of beer with it cheers And it's very important if you're somewhere with hot climate and got thirsty - could be a life saver. Here's a little guide on how it's done (fun):

    Spoiler:
    Here's bottle of Ukrainian beer "Obolon Premium" and Israel modified M16 Colt commando Smile






    Another peaceful use for assault rifle. Smile
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    Almael
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 7/16/2009, 7:52 pm

    AlexT wrote:That saburo gun looks good as for SMG - very compact. Problem of every SMG is where to place clip - it's often 1/2 of whole gun itself.
    Look like P90 a bit which is very nice
    It's a pistol! Razz and also a bullbup design. P90 is bleh! It's worn instead of a pistol.
    Take Motoko's lecture on page 62&63 (original GITS 1)
    Edit:
    This is the SMG in GITS


    AlexT wrote:

    This looks like the version they sell for the Seburo C-25/6...need checking
    Edit: Seburo C-X

    AlexT wrote:
    But these are SMGs - i think laser assault rifle should be different. It's not much of a theory, but i think laser SMGs can exist too since you want em for same reason they exist today - since battery is limited they'd have smaller "caliber" but higher rate of fire for quick inside-ship situations while laser assault rifles are more powerful and long range weapons with higher power but slower rate of fire. So their design should be closer to classic assault rifles. As for laser handguns - i think it's nice idea for them to be able to maintain "continuous" beam (up to half second, maybe more) since they're single-action.
    The specifics for lasers are different, so are the prefered abilities.
    For the ranges the weapons are used the size of the "caliber" can be the same for pistol or rifle. Firepower is defined by how much energy is released within a certain time (1s). So the more power and shorter the time the more powerful. Of course both varibles mean an increase in waste heat so you can't have it set to anything you want or the weapon may melt or explode in your hand. Since pistols are smaller they have to fire at lesser power.

    Well, most military pistols are semi-automatic, some are automatic. Only civilists use single action weapons.
    Anyway, if the shot lasts long you will waste some firepower when the target moves.
    Firing frequence or rate of fire for a laser weapon is different from powder/gas weapons.
    A laser shot in itself could be a sequence of many short pulses. In this case a shot would be a sequence. Or you could also consider a pulse to be a shot.
    In any case, it is prefered that the pulse does not last too long in order to give the target matter time to vaporize away. The number of pulse could be as many as 10k per second.
    While IMO a shot should not last longer than 0.2 s.

    AlexT wrote:

    And of course old classics, my favorite actualy Smile

    Rear part is similar to P90 and i like it - Abhs would love something ergonomic:
    Yes.

    AlexT wrote:
    Finaly...as for Calico...are you serious? It look like bad laser gun from ancient sci-fi movie and it's no good in use. It's not controlled very well, not reliable due to complex clip, hard to repair and replace clips...weapon of crazy bank robbers and terrorists Evil or Very Mad And it's expensive - you can buy M4 for almost as much.
    Yes, the Calico was used in scifi movies. Well, 50-100 rounds of 9 mm at close range is nice.
    Also Shirow's design is bulbup so the the range, kinetic power, and acuracy is much better than the calico..
    But yeah I prefere my favorite guns.

    AlexT wrote:
    More important - that clip design is no good...because you can't open bottle of beer with it cheers And it's very important if you're somewhere with hot climate and got thirsty - could be a life saver. Here's a little guide on how it's done (fun):
    Laughing You know in the field you use your teeth, knife, armpit, or hand for that. Laughing Some woman do it in an interesting way, too. Wink
    Spoiler:
    Besides nobody is going to produce those old mags anymore.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 7/23/2009, 7:15 pm

    My older idea, just something to start with, quick and sketchy:
    http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/5980/laserrifle.jpg
    The battery is below, barrel is somewhere between upper and bottom parts and on top there's a small screen like a scope that can show miltiple things. The regular sights for quick shots is there as well - the thingie in front(top) is flexible - can't break it - seen such on some of the real weapons - it's long so weapon won't eat your view or interfere with focus.

    It's not like those rifles i posted, but something abhs would come up with i think...they don't like cyberpunk style Smile Anyway - let me know what you think, i'll modify or redraw it or if it looks interesting enough i'll color it to see how it looks.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 7/24/2009, 7:55 am

    First, my thoughts on rifles
    1- no matter the technology, it must be as compact, small and light as possible
    It appears that a standard rifle always weights in at 4 kg despite using modern plastics.
    Advanced future weapon are more complex and usually require more dense components or as a whole their density will be higher than a normal gun.
    They are likely to be heavier for the same size.
    2- The carry handle was a revolutional design which allowed easy and relaxed carrying of the weapon even when running.
    After all a soldier usually has 15+ kg of gear and equipment on. Anything reducing the uncomfortable sensation or tiredness is worth it.
    3- Range and destructive power of future weapons must be similar or better to normal rifles.
    4-The reason for future weapon's use is to reduce supply requirement such as munition and in modern view resources.
    As well as safety.
    5- a rifle should be able to mount a bayonette
    6- range should be at least 200 m: a good weapon iron sight and a 'calm' person should be able to hit a human target
    sniper range should be at least 1 km; max. 3 km prefered
    Snipers usually shoot much further.
    Modern rifles should have a small scope.
    7- Modern rifles should be able to be used by left or right handed people
    8- Modern rifles should be able to be used even when trenched in dirty water, or covered with ice or mud.
    9- stealth in terms of flash light and sound

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now, to my thoughts on Laser, Abh weapon and your design proposal.
    A laser weapon does not have recoil, so it can be expected that all the volume will be used. There won't be a need for cushion mechanism in the stock. The stock itself will be part of the weapon, hence, 'reducing' size. Therefore, the stock can have any form.

    It's certain the Abh use some kind of variable electron laser technology. The precise design is still a secret.
    Due to this technology it may be possible to integrate the trigger and handle into the body of the weapon. Or any other unconventional design could be possible.

    But your design is too big and bulky. I would expect the 'head' to be similar and only about 50% bigger than the handgun we saw. The lenght can be different in anyway.
    Although, I like the computerized targeting display, I think it's counter to stealth. Anyone with nightvision would see your face. For the same reason I proposed a light and color adjusting display for a star trek rifle in one of my handbooks.
    To solve this just include a connection port for a helmet like in Sol Bianca movie-1 or any later anime like Gits.
    I don't know about the flexible thingie.
    As a sight it's bad, because of vertical variation aiming by the user.
    A carry handle can solve this as it offers a straight line sight. The display will have to be part of the handle.
    I think the battery could be inserted between the head and the tigger or below the stock. I think the battery being the stock itself would counter size reduction.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here are my visualised thoughts.

    A future example.

    And here the abh like design.

    I also extrapolated from the Handgun we saw in Cots. As you see it looks like a shotgun. In any case this is too unbalanced. Ideally the trigger and handle should be in the middle. But then the battery would be a problem.
    On the other side having smaller sized batteries and using two would be good, too. This would allow an incremental sizing of weapons without having to design an extra battery pack. Similar to what I think is being done in star trek TNG but never said or mentioned. Obviously they used packs of AA batteries. Laughing
    Also one such smaller battery could be used for a SMG; 3 for sniper or MG.
    So halfing the middle and shifting it to the rear... In this arrangement the laser mod adjuster would have to be on top.

    A quickly modfied other example.
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 7/24/2009, 9:10 am

    Hmm, they prefer round/curved forms after all so here's mix of that and rifles i posted (xm8 style) - made it more compact. Also keep in mind that it's very slim except for battery which is round now - it's removed by pulling it forward. But it's for 2 hands - assault rifle must be 2 handed...
    http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/887/laserrifle3.jpg

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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by Almael on 7/25/2009, 7:11 am

    Looks much better now. It's a Crysis SCAR. Laughing
    The trigger and handle looks like a normal firing mechanism. Future weapon are all electronized. There is no bulky firing mechanism.
    BTW. Without engery you can't use them nor can you use them after lying around a long time. So scavenging during an adventure won't do if you don't have energy.
    I'm still not satisfied with the stock. Without recoil the only function it would have to aid aiming at longrange.
    I think you don't need that big lower part to hold the battery. And IMHO one end lock isn't secure. Lock at the Calico gun magazine. You put it more or less into the base the same way, then it snaps at both ends into place.

    AlexT wrote:But it's for 2 hands - assault rifle must be 2 handed...
    Rambo needs only one hand. Razz
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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

    Post by AlexT on 7/25/2009, 9:12 am

    Realy? I didn't even think about that SCAR btw...hmm..but it's still different - the key of my design is that "Z" type shape - something that would serve laser rifle well since it doesn't have to be straight.
    Ok, i see - look like it realy need something totaly different... the 80% of rifle's volume will be concentrated in front of it with only light handle and stock behind it.
    I wanna try "modular" approach now - rifle that would still look somewhat big but would consist of separate parts. Maybe transformable, though it's not very realistic - there's no excuse in moving parts even in laser rifle except for stock and handle. If it able to transform to become smaller - why not to make it such in the first place..
    Bbtw, Mass Effect has very cool transformable guns:
    This one is common rifle (better ones are kind more compact) - this one in open position. Closed it become almost 2-ce smaller
    http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/3/30/Assault_Rifle_Concept_Art.jpg
    Also in this oldest trailer there's transformins sniper rifle in action:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gZK15KcA2k
    Btw, cool gun design:
    http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/5/57/Small_Arms_Codex_Image.jpg


    As for Rembo - It's because density of opponents before him is so high that he score good hit ratio even with such spread of bullets Wink And no way someone can use M60 efficiently like that... Even AK74 while a lot more controllable in auto/burst than M16 family is pain to use in full auto. It's not like impossible, but very exhausting. Good for psychological pressure though or when you give AKs to army of total newbs - they become surprisingly effective, even with high losses.Strange, but among 10 ppl 1 is often naturaly gifted at shooting.
    As for laser rifle - both 2 hands and stock are needed for accuracy. Even BB rifle need it to be efficient at 200-300 m, i'm not even talking about 500-1000. It depends on experience of shooter a lot, but you still want em for your average abh soldier, though our hecto-commander prefer to dual wield pistols since he figured that his abh nature allow him to be very ambidexterous which is also result of his love for knives.
    Btw, why Abhs would want bayonets? Unlike our crazy HC average abhs don't like knives and any other "cold" weapons. It's not elegant...you know - blood, guts and ... Very Happy

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    Re: Lost Stories Character arts and details.

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