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    3D Modeling Discussion

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    JGZinv
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 5/30/2009, 11:29 am

    Hmm, you don't have some suggestions on learning to model 3D Almael?
    Do you prefer a big book approach or some other method?

    I really need to get my butt in gear some how for my mod project.
    A faster method of modeling, such is described with nurbs would be useful.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 5/30/2009, 1:44 pm

    JGZinv wrote:Hmm, you don't have some suggestions on learning to model 3D Almael?
    Do you prefer a big book approach or some other method?

    I really need to get my butt in gear some how for my mod project.
    A faster method of modeling, such is described with nurbs would be useful.

    Since, you are a beginner you have to choose the 3D program(s) you want to use first.
    From experience you are likely to end up using it for most of the time, so choose 'wisely'
    If you do mods, Milkshape is your first choice followed by any other.
    I'm using truespace because it allows the fasted result and least poly count.
    3DMax is too complicated(menues) for me, I'm not used to milkshape.
    http://armada2.filefront.com/file/Milkshape_3D_SOD_Tutorial;24066
    http://www.trekmania.net/art/tutorial_3.htm

    First look at how to use the view windows, set cameras, and move around. This is most basic and will save a lot of trouble in creation.
    The best way to learn 3D is playing around with the basic objects, learn the transformation you can do (resize, booleans, polygon tools) you will se the quirks or not.
    Then play around with surfaces and point editing.
    Now you should be ready to do nearly anything.
    You can start doing nurbs or extending(extruding) based on a surface etc.
    Nurbs are basictly baloons you can extend or squeeze with the mouse. It's similar to sculpting. The more you manipulate a surface the more polys it will get.
    Usually you should see some (axis) markers on the object for manipulation, too.

    NurbsThere aren't really many tricks in 3D just program dependent ways of working. So problem solution is also program dependent.

    You should start a thread on your mod.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by AlexT on 5/30/2009, 5:14 pm

    I'm not saying you should use Mudbox for low poly models, but when youl want to make characters/faces or any organic shapes and displacement maps for them? Making basic mesh is one thing, but adding fine details in most all-around 3D packages is pain or impossible - you no longer can stay low poly and either switch to soft selections for modeling and paint displacement/bump map in photoshop.
    That's why ppl been using Zbrush for years now
    http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6055/mainmu0.jpg
    but it had problems with exporting/importing stuff while Musbox is native with 3Dmax/maya/XSI (all Autodesk). Texture painting is also nice in it, lacking couple of tools but it's not photoshop anyway...

    JGZ, software is not that important - at this point they mostly offer slightly different aproaches to doing same thing +/- couple of unique tricks. All the principles are the same so any good 3D artist can usualy easily move from one package to another. It's all about how you prefer to work.
    For example - i agree with Almael that 3D max is a bit too...overpopulated with menus and tools etc. I also never liked how modeling works - it's smoothing groups are no good compared to ease and speed of XSI's hard edges/subdivisions... etc. For me - 3D max is no tool of artist but more like engineering programm. I hate that, but some ppl may think otherwise. After all - those tools do the same thing. When you know what that things is and how it work - you can use various tools for it.

    The best solution for you are those specialy re-worked versions of 3D packages designed for game/mod character modeling. They are usualy free. I'm sure there's was such version of Softimage XSI that used for all Valve and others games (Half Life etc) modeling, just don't remember how it's called. There are other "light" versions of other modeling packages that allow modeling/texturing and export.

    In case i haven't convinced you and you want to dig it deeper -here's my overview since i worked or at least tried every 1 Wink
    Spoiler:
    Truespace as well as Lightwave - are both old, abandoned but good packages. Dunno why, but they felt good and had some unique tools.
    Maya - don't even bother, unless u plan to become pro and work mainly on animation - it's tools need a lot of getting used to. No good for novices.
    XSI - my package of choice, especialy for modeling. It's among few most powerful and professional but light (educational) versions are cheap (was at least).
    Modo - more like modeling only package. Many ppl prefer it for just modeling.
    Cinema 4D - very friendly and good for novice. It's Bodypaint allow painting textures right on model itself, still unmatched.
    Mudbox - sculpting/texture painting programm. Probably the only alternative to Zbrush as it allow you to sculpt models (like real sculpture) instead of modeling.
    Zbrush - it's not exactly 3D like others. Tool for illustrations, used for sculpting models with insane amount of polys - something other 3D packages can't do.
    Blender - free but almost as powerful as any other package.
    As for learning - usualy any help/tutorial menu of each package has enough to get you started. You need to understand basics first - what is 3D and how things work there, it's possibilities and limitations.
    Once you get general idea - it all becomes clear to you then and you don't even need to read about specific tool to understand it's purpose.

    3D is kinda cruel thing. You like it. you learn it just to become experienced enough to realize - now way you make something impressive unless you do it as professinal - as part of the team, funding, with and commercial purpose, otherwise it's like building rocket in your garage - you spend years and nobody is too impressed in the end. That's why i switched to 2D and stuff like Zbrush. "Traditional" 3D is only justified for animation and games
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 5/30/2009, 5:31 pm

    I think this probably warrants it's own thread, as we could each say volumes on 3D alone.

    But I've got 3Ds Max 7 and 9. Photoshop 5 and CS 1.
    I also have BodyPaint 3D.

    Photoshop I'm not a beginner in, but there's lots of little things that you'd learn about in some kind of study that I don't know. Like what good are masks, and the proper usage. Mostly I've played at it for 8 years.

    Max I have to use not by choice, but because the other guys on my mod team use it.
    Basically, I made a butt ugly "ship" twice in it by extrusion and simple tools.
    I agree wholeheartedly that it's confusing and there's 12 menus for any function.
    Stepping into Sketchup was so easy and made sense, but everything it exports is a geometry
    nightmare.

    I also wish to take college level courses on 3D design, artistry, and electronics. Game design
    is a specific field in which there's nothing nearby that offers the classes. Game specific colleges are
    ridiculously expensive too.

    Bodypaint, I started on one ship with it and can very much appreciate the photshop feel to the tools.
    I can't imagine using anything else to texture a ship with, but basically... I know nothing in the program so I've not been able to effectively do much.

    I'll look into splitting the topic later. Gotta go hang some drywall.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 5/30/2009, 7:36 pm

    I guess. I've done quite a lot but I think it's program specific experience. But most work processes should be similar.

    JGZinv wrote:
    But I've got 3Ds Max 7 and 9. Photoshop 5 and CS 1.
    I also have BodyPaint 3D.

    Photoshop I'm not a beginner in, but there's lots of little things that you'd learn about in some kind of study that I don't know. Like what good are masks, and the proper usage. Mostly I've played at it for 8 years.
    I don't have/used BodyPaint 3D. As to all others I rarely used them.

    Well, I use tha magic wand for cleaning/removing areas/colors etc. I haven't taken classes so dunno about tricks. lol Normally you use vector-graphs as masks, but IMHO this is mostly not what I want. I simply use MS paint. Creating mask by saving in different color resolution. If necessary edit a pixel here and there to close an area off.
    Then save back and fill the area with a convenient color while use white for transparency.
    copy past, remove mask color, copy and past onto merging pic, done


    Stepping into Sketchup was so easy and made sense, but everything it exports is a geometry
    nightmare.
    Laughing
    I guess the best way is conversion to different formats and import etc?


    Game specific colleges are
    ridiculously expensive too.
    I think it's better to take technical design classes & 3D classes those should cover more or less the basics. The problem is actual designing the game etc. I don't know how much you need to know. I doubt you want anything with programming or AI.


    Bodypaint, I started on one ship with it and can very much appreciate the photshop feel to the tools.
    I can't imagine using anything else to texture a ship with, but basically... I know nothing in the program so I've not been able to effectively do much.
    Hmm, I might try to take a look here.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 5/31/2009, 12:12 am

    Well as to sketchup, "everything" it exports in any format has
    massive errors. Some of the models we had as the best set.. had over
    300 errors and we're only talking about a couple hundred ploy model.

    We tried everything, both directions.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 5/31/2009, 9:37 am

    JGZinv wrote:Well as to sketchup, "everything" it exports in any format has
    massive errors. Some of the models we had as the best set.. had over
    300 errors and we're only talking about a couple hundred ploy model.

    We tried everything, both directions.
    pale That's total crappy!!!
    Have you guys tried to use another program to convert its format? Like Polytrans?


    AlexT wrote:Looks nice - they all look natural as B&W pics, manga style. I
    wonder if i should stop bothering with color and just draw B&W
    stuff for now...
    See, simple is somethimes the best and most genious. Laughing
    But then I think these just reveal that I do have an artistic eye and sense.

    -------------------------------

    I'm
    not saying you should use Mudbox for low poly models, but when youl
    want to make characters/faces or any organic shapes and displacement
    maps for them? Making basic mesh is one thing, but adding fine details
    in most all-around 3D packages is pain or impossible - you no longer
    can stay low poly and either switch to soft selections for modeling and
    paint displacement/bump map in photoshop.
    That's why ppl been using Zbrush for years now
    Bumpmap is best for most. IMHO And why do(3D) so much detail? Most of them are useless. These may only be necessary for movies with closeup views.
    There is no need for something like scars. You need only do the big bumps, hair, small changes on the surface to get good results.
    I think these are just exaggerating work. I don't believe in more poly making it necessary better. The gain is compareably lower the higher the number. So at a certain number it's not worth it.

    Truespace, Lightwave -old but are still best usefull tools. Razz
    Cine4D is the other one.


    3D
    is kinda cruel thing. You like it. you learn it just to become
    experienced enough to realize - now way you make something impressive
    unless you do it as professinal - as part of the team, funding, with
    and commercial purpose, otherwise it's like building rocket in your
    garage - you spend years and nobody is too impressed in the end.
    So true.


    My tip on making something good and quick is, first research the object of your desire. Wink
    Know as much of its form as possible, then start imaging it and find the most suitable 'basic' form. I don't mean the basic objects but something close enough or a variant. If need be divide it into sections and merge them. From here you edit it, by adding edges/surfaces, points, extrusion etc.
    This gives you simple low polygon and still good enough for use models, ideal for mods.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 5/31/2009, 2:48 pm

    We tried...

    Sketchup
    Max
    Blender
    Deep Exploration
    Some other old multiformat game converter... Milkshape or something...

    All combinations and export formats.
    One reason, beside me learning to model and be useful, was that another
    guy on our existing team found it easy to use too... So we would have had
    2 extra modelers. So we tried it all.

    Some formats were worse than others, some the whole model turned into
    a geometry nightmare. I even made some simple bouy and ring objects out of
    repeated cubes... those weren't even usable.

    Max is just so complicated... it's overly daunting and doesn't help someone
    who needs to get into doing models right away. Like I said the other half of the problem
    is that my main modeler guy is strictly a Max user - and most of the conversion methods for getting a model in-game, involve exporting from Max.

    So yeah, Sketchup has great potential I think, but it sucks for anything beyond a concept drawing.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by AlexT on 6/1/2009, 7:50 am

    Talk abnout 3D continued here Smile
    Spoiler:
    MAX is actualy the most game development friendly thing - considered to be #1 for GD. Most real time engines use 3ds/obj formats for import. First and most important is export of smoothing groups. MAX works with them in native format and export them well while i had real trouble trying to export XSI's subdivision that used hard edges - something only XSI understands.
    I never had problems exporting/importing pure geometry (mesh) without extra attributes (or even with them). You probably did something terribly wrong... Usualy 3D engine has format it uses for import - stick to it, read it's specs and you're fine.

    Almael, can't agreewith you - if by low poly you mean what i think then that's terribly low detail. And what else you want to achieve if not realistic look? It's same as movie/pic level. Look at galleries of both pros and hobbyist 3D artsits - there's no point making something on lower level except for game/mod.
    http://www.igorstshirts.com/blog/conceptships/abalakin_alexander_preuss.jpg
    http://www.cgnetworks.com/galleryimages/59/mermaid_pascal.jpg
    http://www.bulgarov.com/images/marine/marine_zbrush.jpg
    http://www.trinity3d.com/images/gnomon/zbrush_building_creatures/example1.jpg
    In 3D -simple form's don't work, that's why ppl who like anime hate 3D cartoons. 3D is only about realism.

    As for me - I'm planing to use Zbrush a lot in future to make static illustrations like that - right after i learn 2D for skething/concept purposes well enough. I'm looking forward to making my first 3D zbrush illustration. It should be ultimate tool for that kind of thing.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/1/2009, 10:47 am

    We really should move these posts to 3D thread.
    Spoiler:

    By low I mean the lowest possible while still having good quality.
    I think bumpmapping is much more worth for making details than actual 3D details.
    Also having those details without able to make them variable/flexible would just look like a statue. With bumpmap you could make changes eg. blood flowing etc.
    3D Max has been used often because of the game animation movies not really for ingame models. That's been so since before C&C redalert along (with Lightwave).
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/1/2009, 11:19 am

    Moved


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by AlexT on 6/2/2009, 4:46 am

    Almael, bump maps are often not enough - good only for realy small details, yea, but there are a lot of cases when u want to use displacement maps as well. The effect of bump maps is very limited. Organic models are basicaly lifeless in 3D without displacement maps or you have to do all that sculpting in 3D yourself.
    There's few "moving" parts on living creature body except for body itself, but you rig muscles and skin anyway.If you make blood flow etc visible it means you have one helluva detailed model already. Did you check links i posted btw? I'm quite happy with that level and some are impossible without displacement maps in regular 3D while in Zbrush that all is actual geometry without any maps at all. Take a look at that mermaid - pure geometry, not a single map. All that detail is usualy exported then as displacement (and bump) map to regular 3D. Most artists work like this now.

    3D MAX is most used tool for game modeling (level, character etc) design. Ask any game developer. I used to read game development sites and knew a few developers myself. About 70% studios use max, rest is XSI and others. It's often heavily modified with SDKthough.
    In my tutorials shop I even have to set up filter to ignore all the MAX game designtutorials! i.e. "Designing your game assets in 3D max", designing character, vehicles, levels etc.etc

    As for mods - i still 100% sure that the best solution is to use specialy adapted version of XSI or thers. Ppl made them for reason, like making characters for Valve games and engines (Half Life etc), unreal engine...
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/2/2009, 5:09 am

    Well therein lies part of my problem, is that getting tutorial as it applies
    directly to space ship building, or space themed objects, within X limits.
    Is basically impossible.

    The community behind the engine has several very talented modelers. But all of them
    have developed this idea that tutorials and noobs are not worth their time... yet they complain they are overloaded with work.

    Obvious thing to do would be to make tuts so the noobs could help out... but that's too much effort according to them. I've even offered that, I'd write the tutorial in my insanely detailed and accurate way... if someone would just mentor me. No one was interested.

    So what I'm left with, is either my big fat 3ds max 7 bible... which might take 2 years of study... and since I don't retain much of anything without doing it a few times... probably thousands of hours of practice... before I can do something simple.

    The alternative is web tutorials, but of course versions differ, people aren't clear when they write... and usually the tut only pertains in part...to what I need to get done.

    Even the process of converting ships from Max to PCS2, to Freespace... is documented about 3 different ways. But since it's all out of date... you have to read 5 other threads that are 20+ pages long... and then wing it... trying to patch together some idea of what the right way is.

    I'm serious enough to try and take college courses with it as my major. But it's oh so difficult on your own to start anywhere in the program.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/2/2009, 11:51 am

    Well, since I'm not used to 3DMax I would also be interested in a comprehensive 'crash' tutorial.
    I don't have it running anymore, so I can't really contribut other than just common experience.
    As to the bible and co., well, even if you study you will waste more time than worth it. IMHO it's only worth to look up or remind yourself.

    To make a good tutorial the best way is to actually doing a model yourself and make precise notes&see problems that come up.

    A model which has many different parts which can be done in many ways would be optimal.
    You could explore the different ways, see the cons and pros.
    It would really be nice to have it all covered.
    Then you could add/highlight the game specific requirement/features/whatever.

    Some of the tutorials I have seen lack some crucial notes/pics such that you can't really finish it...

    Anyway, are you guys game?
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/2/2009, 12:14 pm

    For making one... I "have" to make one at some point for just purposes of my mod.
    In other words, not only for reminding me and serving as a reference... but also I want it made now when I'm ankle deep in the subject, so that players can use the tutorials when the game is released.

    I'm going to great lengths every time I edit a table, to comment everything out so you don't have to rely on some tut on the web, which might not exist by then...

    It's not a matter of making the tut, it's a matter of knowing the program enough to even get that far. My mod partner guy, took 2 months to get going in it... and I'd say about another month of on and off study seeing where he messed up.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/2/2009, 12:28 pm

    I woulnd't expect it to be quick either. For my models it usually take me onger to tweak and optimise than actually get the bulk done.

    Alright, what kind of 'models' do you have in mind?
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/2/2009, 12:43 pm

    For me... fighters wise, we're using things like this:

    http://www.fringespace.org/index.php?module=Photoshare&func=showimages&fid=4

    http://www.fringespace.org/index.php?module=Photoshare&func=showimages&fid=1

    Cap ships are many orders of magnitude larger. Not much more detailed though. Bases are usually modular, instead of one piece. This here is an exception -


    Our resident modeler did that, and I have to say it's awesome compared
    to the original model.

    The textures are the largest bugaboo...

    Texturing I need to work on. I think I'm capable, just not experienced or familiar with
    the work order and some PS features. Stuff like detail boxes, and different types of maps, I also need to understand how to use.

    But that's an example of the modeling part.

    Rigging the models is another story, this is the closest thing we've got to a tut.
    http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Styxx%27s_POF_Conversion_plugin_for_3D_Studio_Max

    However it is extremely out of date.

    The rigging element of things I need to do "now" (actually more like November of last year) since I've got a back log piling up keeping us from moving forward.


    Edit -

    Some examples of what I did or was working on at one time.

    A texture for the side of a drone.


    First thing I made in Max:


    The most complex thing I made in Max... *shivers*



    Some ships I'd like to eventually be able to create:


    I'd like to finish this one... started on it in BodyPaint but didn't get far.


    Supposed to look like this -




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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/2/2009, 1:18 pm

    Hmm, the fighters are simple enough. My critiques are the ledge(stepped) and gun details. You don't need to be so detailed. Slowers the game for not much gain.
    The gun could start with lower polygons at the base and end up with higher polys at the muzzle or vice versa depending on the size.

    Yeah, mapping is sometimes trouble some depending on the map size available and model size.

    I see you already got the basic objects but no complex boolean or other editing stuff down.
    That shouldn't be a problem to fix.

    I want the battle cruiser, too, btw. Laughing

    Well, choose! and we can move on.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/2/2009, 1:50 pm

    Well none of the models at fringespace are mine, they are either my partner's or Carl's.
    Carl's by far better than either of us.

    Our poly limit on ships is actually about 3x what we're using for fighters. Main reason we're doing it this was is that we want to increase the allowance for the amount of players in game. Tachyon had 32 to 64 players at once. 100 was claimed, but evidently they
    never got it working. Freespace 2, I think is max of 4 on 4, looking to go to 8 on 8 in the future.

    We're looking for more like 12 vs 12. So that's why we're deliberately staying low poly.
    The engine seems to have more problems with particle rendering than anything else actually.

    It supports glow maps, bump maps, spec maps, shine, alpha, and probably a few others. Right now we've only got diffuse/color, bump, and shine for each fighter. Debris and LOD damage is also supported, but we've not done anything with that yet.

    If you mean the white cruiser from Dual... it's the Artifact Warship. ^_^
    I had her built by two people to my specs, it's about as accurate as a 2D to 3D transition can be. I probably ticked some folks off with as picky as I was being.

    I don't really have the editing down. Both ship examples were just me "doodling" over the course of about 8 hours each. Both had geometry issue I think.

    I'm not trying to make excuses, just describing the situation for accuracy.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/3/2009, 8:10 am

    Just multiplayer ... no masses of fleets. -_-

    JGZinv wrote:Our poly limit on ships is actually about 3x what we're using for fighters. It supports glow maps, bump maps, spec maps, shine, alpha, and probably a few others. Right now we've only got diffuse/color, bump, and shine for each fighter. Debris and LOD damage is also supported, but we've not done anything with that yet.
    That's why it's too poly, the max is for big ships afterall, but you got 1/3 for little fighters.
    1/4 would be ideal.


    If you mean the white cruiser from Dual... it's the Artifact Warship. ^_^
    I had her built by two people to my specs, it's about as accurate as a 2D to 3D transition can be. I probably ticked some folks off with as picky as I was being.
    'Warship' with no big weapon....not really what I would call warship.
    Laughing You were not adamant enough. It's not quite right, some perspectives were not compensated for angular view etc.

    Well, there are many ways to do things. Extrusion is one way which IMHO needs lots of editing & adjustments. I prefere to do booleans to avoid doing those editings stuff.
    But Truespace is different, it deletes unecessary polygons while 3DMax leaves them as is, which IMHO is confusing in mesh view. The 'trash' is still being kept, hence, increases filesize etc.
    Anyway, usually I create as many negative boolean objects as actually needed objects.
    So it's not quite faster in terms of work time. The advantage is propably that I can reproduce faster when minor, but significant/difficult adjustments come up.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/3/2009, 12:15 pm

    There's different limits for caps and fighters. What I meant precisely is that we are
    running about 1/3rd of the max fighters limit for fighters. Caps, we only have one ship (not including the warship above) which is also under the limit.

    The warship - the only quibble I could talk about is that the rear wings may not be swept inward enough. Otherwise, if you want to do a thorough comparison, I can post all the images that exist for you to do a proper comparison, instead of just based off 2 images.

    Truespace, the old free version, is used extensively by the Freespace 2 community. I tried getting into it before we settled on Max, but the UI is rather annoying.

    Couple other programs I've not looked into would be Silo and Maxon Cinema 4D, I think Rhino might be another... or that might be related to Silo, I forget.


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/3/2009, 1:26 pm

    Hmm, different limits...seems like there is some checking, which is bad for modding...

    No need for those pics, I have quite a good grasp of it already. Besides the anime artist aren't consistent, this also has to be included into design consideration.

    Well, Truespace's UI can be reconfigured or if you are lazy use version 2 and version 4 combined. Vers 2 for basic quick model generation and 4 for special tools.

    Edit:
    Here's my little proposition for fighters:
    Slipheed 'the fighter'





    details: http://www.segagagadomain.com/mega_cd-info/silpheed.htm
    (Only R-Type can compete.)

    Well, Gradius, just because you guys don't have it



    Also I would be interested in a WC5 Vampire fighter.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by lymhfeubdach on 6/8/2009, 1:13 am

    I have question, how are able add the 3D modelings to mod? After finish modeling a ship does take alot codes get model work right in the game.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by Almael on 6/8/2009, 8:44 am

    For Homeworld2 the models have to be created and exported to Maya 4/5/6.5.
    In Maya the model will be textured. The weapons, turrets, hardpoints, part position and vectors() are created. Optionally transformation scripts are created for transformable models.
    After that a special plugin will export it or pack it into a game file-pack into the slot of an existing ship.

    I don't know the detail about the fringespace mod.
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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

    Post by JGZinv on 6/11/2009, 1:01 am

    Didn't realize there'd been more posts in here.

    Lymh, here's a table which controls the ship attributes.

    Code:
    ;<<<<<<<<<<<<< ARCHANGEL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    $Name:            Archangel                          ;; Model name that is used also in game. It is also used as name for the whole ship entry
    $Short name:         Arch                            ;; Shortened model name, for FRED, Usually more descriptive than the real name
    $Species:            Galspan                        ;; Defines species from species_defs.tbl - Determines many things, including the color of the engine glow, the flyby sound effects, the briefing icon and the support ship
    +Type:            XSTR("Heavy Assault", 2939)        ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens. Number after the quotes refers to tstrings.tbl
    +Maneuverability:      XSTR("Excellent", 2940)        ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens. Number after the quotes refers to tstrings.tbl
    +Armor:            XSTR("Heavy", 2941)                ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens. Number after the quotes refers to tstrings.tbl
    +Manufacturer:         XSTR("Galspan", 2942)          ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens. Number after the quotes refers to tstrings.tbl
    +Description:         XSTR( " ", 2943)                ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens. Number after the quotes refers to tstrings.tbl
    $end_multi_text                                        ;; closing tag for section - required
    +Tech Description:
    XSTR("The Archangel is GalSpan's chief heavy defense vehicle. Few ships have managed to achieve the reputation of fear in combat that the HF-550 Archangel enjoys. With advanced antiproton power storage and delivery systems, the Archangel can and usually does sport the heaviest weapons permissible in the Seven Planet Accord. With a Uranium/Titanium matrix alloy hull and redundant shield emitters, the Archangel is nearly impervious to light single-craft assault.", 2944)
    $end_multi_text                                        ;; closing tag for section - required
    +Length:            16 m                            ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens.
    +Gun Mounts:          2                              ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens.
    +Missile Banks:      2                                  ;; descriptive terms for techroom and ship selection screens.
    $POF file:         archangel-R3b.pof                  ;; Filename of the model file (.pof) at data/models folder
    $Detail distance:      (0, 80, 300, 900)              ;; defines the distance where the change between different Levels-Of-Details (LODs) occurs, distances from the model in meters 
    ; $ND:             42 42 244                          ;; RGB value, No Dim field was used in FreeSpace for ship lights. Use of glowmaps is preferred to the $ND entry. Only noticeable in Glide or Software mode
    $Show damage:         YES                            ;; No known function. Best left alone to avoid possible compatibility issues
    $Density:            1                              ;; defines how hard you hit something. If you set it very high, a collision will severely damage your ship, and push the lower density object away; the higher the numbers are, the harder they will hit and the farther they will be pushed. Setting a density of 10 on a fighter with 180 hitpoints will cause the fighter to immediately explode if it collides with an asteroid
    $Damp:            0.0                                ;; affects how quickly you will accel/decel to your target velocity. Higher damp means slow acceleration and deceleration - lower this number, the faster the ship responds. Example, specifying a value of 0.0 means there is no damping, in other words, "like Wing Commander" The more damping, the harder to control, but the more smoothly it moves.
    $Rotdamp:            0.1                            ;; same as Damp except for rotation (all axis I believe)
    $Max Velocity:         30.0, 0.0, 74.13125            ;; in x/y/z format x = lats y = verts (N/A in tach) z = forward. use special tokens for backward movement - all values are added together to make the total max speed of the engine at 100% thrust IE. 25,25,100 means throttle at 100% is 150 MPS, NOTE - anything over 800 total seems to break collision detection
    $Rotation time:      4.05, 4.17, 3.76                    ;; x, y, and z -axis - number of seconds it takes to complete rotate a ship (360 degrees) around the given axis
    $Rear Velocity:      74.13125                            ;; maximum reverse velocity in meters per second - is not added to maximum velocity count
    $Forward accel:      8.13                                ;; number of seconds needed from full stop to maximum velocity
    $Forward decel:      7.86                                ;; number of seconds needed from maximum velocity to full stop
    $Slide accel:         1.02                            ;; Lats & Verts - number of seconds needed from full stop to max lat/vert speed
    $Slide decel:         3.22                            ;; Lats & Verts - number of seconds needed from max lats/verts speed to full stop
    $Glide:            YES                                ;; Allows (Tach: 'sliding') (FS2 'gliding') yes or no
    $Expl inner rad:      25.0                            ;; Radius at which the full explosion damage is done - in meters
    $Expl outer rad:      100.0                          ;; Maximum radius at which any damage is done - in meters
    $Expl damage:         1000.0                          ;; Amount of damage done inside the inner radius
    $Expl blast:         100.0                          ;; The intensity of the blast effect when you're within the outer radius
    $Expl Propagates:      NO                               ;; If set to Yes, then when the ship dies, the explosion propagates through it.
    $Shockwave Speed:      50.0                     ;; speed shockwave expands at, 0 means no shockwave
    $Allowed PBanks:         ( "Railgun" "Flare" "Glint" "Deimos" "Chatter Cannon" "Targeting Laser" )  ;; List of allowed primary weapons in brackets (weapon name marked with quotes) each of the primary weapon banks can optionally be given their own list of allowed weapons, in which case each bank has its own bracketed entry -  ex. ( "String" "String" ) ( "String" "String" )
    $Allowed Dogfight PBanks:   ( "Railgun" "Flare" "Glint" "Deimos" "Chatter Cannon" "Targeting Laser" )  ;; Primary weapons for multiplayer dogfights - in brackets (weapon name marked with quotes) each of the primary weapon dogfight banks can optionally be given their own list of allowed weapons, in which case each bank has its own bracketed entry -  ex. ( "String" "String" ) ( "String" "String" )
    $Default PBanks:         ( "Deimos" "Deimos" )      ;; Defines default primary weapons for each of the primary weapon banks
    $PBank Capacity:         ( 937, 937 )                  ;; Ammunition capacity of secondary weapon banks. In brackets, different weapon banks separated by commas.
    $Allowed SBanks:         ( "Spire" "Sunspot" "Swarm" "Plasma Rocket" "EMP Adv." )  ;; List of allowed secondary weapons in brackets (weapon name marked with quotes) each of the secondary weapon banks can optionally be given their own list of allowed weapons, in which case each bank has its own bracketed entry -  ex. ( "String" "String" ) ( "String" "String" )
    $Allowed Dogfight SBanks:   ( "Spire" "Sunspot" "Swarm" "Plasma Rocket" "EMP Adv." )  ;; ;; Secondary weapons for multiplayer dogfights - in brackets (weapon name marked with quotes) each of the secondary weapon dogfight banks can optionally be given their own list of allowed weapons, in which case each bank has its own bracketed entry -  ex. ( "String" "String" ) ( "String" "String" )
    $Default SBanks:         ( "Swarm" "Swarm" )        ;; Defines default weapons for each of the secondary weapon banks (I think - not sure)
    $SBank Capacity:         ( 40, 40 )                  ;; Ammunition capacity of secondary weapon banks. In brackets, different weapon banks separated by commas.
    $Shields:            38000                          ;; Max shield strength
    $Shield Color:         100 100 255                    ;; Shield color in RGB value
    $Power Output:         10.0                            ;; Dead Tag - does nothing *Wanderer 01-03-09
    $Max Oclk Speed:      110.0                          ;; Maximum velocity with all energy diverted to engines
    $Max Weapon Eng:      27500.0                        ;; Max weapons energy available
    $Hitpoints:         26000                              ;; Max hull strength
    $Flags:            ( "default_player_ship" "player_ship" "fighter" "generate icon" "in tech database" )
    $AI Class:         Captain                            ;; default AI class as defined in ai.tbl
    $Afterburner:         YES                            ;; afterburner allowed or not - yes or no
       +Aburn Max Vel:       0.0, 0.0, 181.8005          ;; x-axis, y-axis, z-axis, in meters per second - may be same setup as Max Velocity
       +Aburn For accel:      2.08                        ;; Only for forward acceleration - number of seconds from full stop to max burn
       +Aburn Fuel:         157.5025                    ;; Total amount of burners fuel
       +Aburn Burn Rate:      12.55                      ;; Rate the fuel is consumed when afterburner is engaged (in units per seconds)
       +Aburn Rec Rate:      0.89424                    ;; Rate the fuel is restored (in units per seconds)
          $Trails:                                        ;; Allows afterburner trails to be used
          +Bitmap:         ABtrail                    ;; Texture filename used to draw the afterburner trail
          +Width:         6.0                            ;; Width of afterburner trail at the beginning of it (ie. the thruster end) in meters.
          +Alpha:         1.0                            ;; Transparancy of the trail, value from 1 (non-transparent) to 0 (totally transparent)
          +Life:         1.0                            ;; How long the trail will last in seconds
    $Countermeasures:      50                              ;; Number of countermeasures that can be loaded to the ship
    $Scan time:         2000                                ;; Time it takes to scan the ship (from player POV)
    $EngineSnd:         128                                ;; Engine sound used for the ship with number referring to sounds.tbl
    $Closeup_pos:         0.0, 0.0, -22                  ;; How the model will show at techroom. The position of the camera relative to the model in the tech room and the target box view
    $Closeup_zoom:         0.5                            ;; How the model will show at techroom. How far the camera's zoomed in, defines camera's FOV.
    $Shield_icon:         Archangel                      ;; This .ani file must be in folder data/hud
    $Ship_icon:         iconfighter01                      ;; The icon used in ship selection / ship model is used by default to generate the image
    $Ship_anim:         ssfighter01                        ;; The glowing green grid animation used in ship selection / ship model is used by default to generate the image
    $Ship_overhead:      loadfighter01                      ;; The overhead view used in the weapons loadout / ship model is used by default to generate the image
    $Score:            8                                  ;; Points awarded for destroying the ship
    $Trail:                                                ;; Ship may have multiple trails
       +Offset:            -7.75 -2.8 0.75            ;; The position of the contrail's head -x, y and z values relative to the center point of the model
       +Start Width:         0.25                        ;; The width of the contrail's head in meters
       +End Width:         0.05                            ;; The width of the contrail's tail in meters
       +Start Alpha:         1.0                        ;; The opacity of the contrail's head - 0 or 1 (no yes)
       +End Alpha:         0.0                            ;; The opacity of the contrail's tail - 0 or 1 (no yes)
       +Max Life:         1.0                            ;; How long the contrail remains in seconds
       +Spew Time:         60                              ;; Sorry no description :(
       +Bitmap:            Contrail01                  ;; The image name to use for the contrail
    $Trail:                                               
       +Offset:            7.75 -2.8 0.75             
       +Start Width:         0.25
       +End Width:         0.05
       +Start Alpha:         1.0
       +End Alpha:         0.0
       +Max Life:         1.0
       +Spew Time:         60
       +Bitmap:            Contrail01
    $Subsystem:         communications,   10, 0              ;; Sorry no description :(
    $Subsystem:         navigation,      10, 0              ;; Sorry no description :(
    $Subsystem:         weapons,         20, 0          ;; Sorry no description :(
    $Subsystem:         sensors,         10, 0          ;; Sorry no description :(
    $Subsystem:         engines,         35, 0          ;; Sorry no description :(

    It's only an early version.

    Now Almael - I played a lot of Silpheed... remember it well.
    Usually people over look it for Gradius...


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    Re: 3D Modeling Discussion

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